Is it time to raise basic tax rate?
I hope that this does not become a Political Football because ALL Goverments have followed similar Policies.
But today we are constantly hearing that our Police, Prisons, National Health, Defence etc etc are all in almost terminal decline due to underfunding.
Yet when I were now't but a lad, and Pontious was a Pilot, I recall that I believe I was paying about 30% basic rate of income tax. Then we had properly funded public services and armed forces to defend us. There were very few additional hidden stealth taxes so you knew where you were.
Then it became the fashion of Govts of all colours to reduce that basic rate in stages down to the current 20%. But it seems that there is now no money to do anything. I hate the trend towards more and more hidden stealth taxes and personally would rather pay a more sensible general rate, and get back some proper public services. Or is it just me?
Please NO political dogma or blame etc. Just a straight forward view on whether paying a bit more tax to get a better service would be better, or is it better to do it the way we are?
So to rule out the arguements Straight forward answer.
(a) Pay more basic rate
(B) Stay as now.
Nothing more!
TF
Comments
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Neither A or B I'm afraid TF its not the simple a subject.
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If we pay more tax we have less to spend and it follows that the economy could slow and businesses suffer with people becoming redundant and less NI and tax collected. Then the NHS etc couldn't be funded to the current level while payments in state benefits would soar due to rising unemployment. Hmm.
As Whittaker said, it's not that simple.
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If we pay more tax we have less to spend and it follows that the economy could slow and businesses suffer with people becoming redundant and less NI and tax collected. Then the NHS etc couldn't be funded to the current level while payments in state benefits would soar due to rising unemployment. Hmm.
As Whittaker said, it's not that simple.
I wish it was
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Ensuring that all those who should be paying taxes, at the appropriate rate would reap benefits as well. The reliance on "Consultancy Culture" needs addressing, huge wastage on this score. Both areas of major concern, but little done realistically for a
very long time.0 -
A public vote here in Beds recently as to whether the public favoured a extra increase in council tax to provide more funding for public service was rejected by the majority.
peedee
That doesn't surprise me. Possible shows how little faith people will have in terms of how the money will be spent, rather than a reluctance to pay more. That for me is one of the basic issues. Those that contribute are very far removed from how the money
is allocated, and I openly admit to having little respect for those at local and national level when it comes to ensuring value for money. As an ex local government officer, I had first hand experience!0 -
Speaking as a crown or local government employee for the bulk of my working life, not essential services. I'd say all the fat, and there was a lot forty years ago, has been whittled away and the whole is now more anorexic than obese. Something needs to be
sorted to keep our roads repaired, schools and hospitals functioning etc etc. The government have no money, they never have had, it is taxpayer's. I wish I knew how to solve the overall problem I think it will need a several pronged approach including TF's
A and takethedogalong's ensuring what is owed is paid. That is possibly raising of income tax, or more stealth tax, that does hit those who are under the radar or in the black market as well as taxpayers and to do this fairly personal tacx allowance needs
to increase, fines, reclaiming of fees for health tourism etc. is implemented. I reckon if it could be solved by one person they'd make their fortune - and pay their tax0 -
It's a huge issue. There are just so many key areas that need tackling to keep the population healthy, safe, educated and productive. The last time it was truly done properly was after the second world war, when the country really was on its knees, since
then, lots more issues have became major problems, not least the health service, encompassing cradle to grave care, and there are different dangers and economic worries. Any squabbling and in fighting amongst those elected to resolve these issues is to me
disrespectful of the population as a whole, and the media feeding such behaviour doesn't help.0 -
TF
I am not sure you are starting at the right end of the tax spectrum. Lower paid people, so by definition those on the basic rate of tax, I understand pay a higher proportion of their income in tax that those that are much better off. I don't disagree with your sentiment but if we really wanted to increase the tax take we need to look elsewhere and I suspect there are plenty of places to look if we applied ourselves
Perhaps it should be remembered that National Insurance is much higher than it used to be and if you add basic rate tax to NI the base rate is 31%
David
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Few people will volunteer to pay more tax. I think that an increase in VAT is the best "catch all". If we want better service s then they have to be paid for and it's better if everyone pays a little rather than a few paying a lot.
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If the tax evasion that is rife was was brought under control this thread may not needed to have been started
It would help I agree, but it is only one element of a very complex situation that has evolved and become a crisis in a number of areas, over a very long period of time. There are other aspects feeding the lack of funding in key areas, not least a degree
of mismanagement, lack of long term thinking and planning, and some unforseen changes. That is why it is so complicated, it took quite a long time to reach this state of affairs, and is going to take a long and possibly financially painful exercise to extract
us out of the mire. The sticking plasters applied at various intervals are starting to slide off, not least in the health/care and penal services.0 -
Few people will volunteer to pay more tax. I think that an increase in VAT is the best "catch all". If we want better service s then they have to be paid for and it's better if everyone pays a little rather than a few paying a lot.
I disagree, what really needs tackling is how the money available is spent. Then look at a possible increase, but being upfront and honest about where it is spent. Again not easy, because as individuals we will all have different priorities.
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Personally I think there are many ways of raising much needed funds for public services not just by income tax ,
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I really don't want to think how much of my income and expenditure is taxed one way or another but as was pointed out earlier I would rather if a tax was to go on it was an unavoidable tax like VAT where if you buy anything it was taxed and inescapable and
unclaimable as a business necessity - too many loopholes to exploit. Naive or what!0 -
Wholeheartedly agree. There is more folks could do for themselves, even if it is only a bit of litter picking and leaf collection, or shovelling snow. Of course not everyone is fit and well enough to do it, but just a little can go a long way. I live on
a tiny street of just twelve houses, two are occupied by very elderly, third by someone with cancer. We all keep the street tidy, one chap with an industrial leaf blower sorts out leaves, and everyone visits, shops and just generally cares for the elderly
and poorly ones. I am about to rope in our local police inspector to tackle a few more issues, he lives local and cares as much as we do. I dislike the "not my job" mentality, caring for it amounts to owning it and taking a pride in it, and everyone benefits
long term. I do of course hassle the council to make sure we do get at least one mechanical road sweep per year, think they owe us at least that much!
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Not particularly Merve. More about society and morals. As in everyone working towards a better society, and upholding a decent set of values and morals, for the benefit of the masses. Funded by the masses!
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Well TF not an "A" or "B" answer in site
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Briang, yes, in the 1970s the top rate was eye watering, it's easy to look up past rates on the internet.
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman
If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.
Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me.the bold text equated to the 95% rate, and beautifully expressed in the song....with thanks to George Harrison.
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In answer to the original question i say no the basic rate of tax is high enough at 20%.Couple this with all the other indirect taxation and we are paying more than enough towards the upkeep of this country.Any adjustment to tax should be made on the higher
earners and business,s including the banks.v9.
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