Desecration of our war graves!
I was really upset to read yesterday in the Times, that it has just been discovered that a number of our sunken warships in the South Java sea have been totaly destroyed by illegal scrap metal "pirates". The Exeter for example, - Hero of the Battle of the
River Plate, but later sunk by the Japanese, has all but gone in a short period and several other ships plundered in the same fashion. A submarine has been completely dismantled.
All of those ships bore the last remains of many British sailors!
TF
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Nasty
disrespectfull B- - - - ds !!.0 -
When I first read about this, I had a mental image of these ships being way below the seas. However, just done a bit of research, and they are infact partially exposed in very shallow seas, only just off a beach. Very easily accessible, and no doubt a serious
temptation for those wanting the scrap metal and other resaleable items. They don't appear to be designated war graves, so I wonder if all the bodies had long ago been removed?0 -
It is a great shame that this can happen. I haven't investigated it so this a general comment. If they are close by countries with extreme poverty put yourself in their position, how would you deal with a resource that could potentially feed your children??
I also feel this when archeological digs find graves and remove the dead and their coffins (one in East Anglia at mo where caskets are hollowed out trees). Slightly different but still disturbing the dead and being disrespectful???0 -
Seems that every generation born now are taught no values or respect for others dead or alive whatsoever,
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The South Java Sea is not exactly UK territorial waters - so how can we expect others to honour the dead as we would?
I feel that opportunists will strike at every possibility and we have to be grateful that the War Graves Commission/ Admiralty, or who ever, protects such wrecks in our waters.
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Seems that every generation born now are taught no values or respect for others dead or alive whatsoever,
Do you have any examples of a whole generation with no values or respect for others?
Write your comments here...
Yes Howard Carter who desecrated Tutenkahmen's grave. And excavations of King Radwald's berial ship at Sutton Ho in Suffolk etc ...
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Seems that every generation born now are taught no values or respect for others dead or alive whatsoever,
Do you have any examples of a whole generation with no values or respect for others?
Write your comments here...
Yes Howard Carter who desecrated Tutenkahmen's grave. And excavations of King Radwald's berial ship at Sutton Ho in Suffolk etc ...
Write your comments here...
I see your point but the poster was claiming that generations born now are taught no values, its a bit of an odd statement, I wonder if he/she was including their own family
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It's tricky isn't it. - does it depend on the nationality of the person comitting the desecration, or the nationality of the deceased, or the elapsed time since the good soul died? It seems that Richard 111 found himself under a car park in Leicester - was he left where he lay? No, he was moved to Leicester Cathedral. Might our war dead seafarers remains be removed to a war grave on land?
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It's tricky isn't it. - does it depend on the nationality of the person comitting the desecration, or the nationality of the deceased, or the elapsed time since the good soul died? It seems that Richard 111 found himself under a car park in Leicester - was
he left where he lay? No, he was moved to Leicester Cathedral. Might our war dead seafarers remains be removed to a war grave on land?JC, thought provoking post & the King Tut one.
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I was really upset to read yesterday in the Times, that it has just been discovered that a number of our sunken warships in the South Java sea have been totaly destroyed by illegal scrap metal "pirates". The Exeter for example, - Hero of the Battle of the
River Plate, but later sunk by the Japanese, has all but gone in a short period and several other ships plundered in the same fashion. A submarine has been completely dismantled.All of those ships bore the last remains of many British sailors!
TF
Write your comments here...im sorry too Brian but the world is a very sick place. I cant give my reasons as I would upset the politically correct on CT, but, the desecration of a war grave is unforgivable.
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I was really upset to read yesterday in the Times, that it has just been discovered that a number of our sunken warships in the South Java sea have been totaly destroyed by illegal scrap metal "pirates". The Exeter for example, - Hero of the Battle of the
River Plate, but later sunk by the Japanese, has all but gone in a short period and several other ships plundered in the same fashion. A submarine has been completely dismantled.All of those ships bore the last remains of many British sailors!
TF
Write your comments here...im sorry too Brian but the world is a very sick place. I cant give my reasons as I would upset the politically correct on CT, but, the desecration of a war grave is unforgivable.
Write your comments here...
Fair comment but it was not a designated war grave, what do you mean by not wanting to upset the politically correct?
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I too am very sorry that so many of our members are happy to wear the Poppy, but when they are really tested on the subject, accept that the desecration of our warships, containing as they do, the last remains of our brave serviceman, are acceptable facets
of modern times!Sorry but I will never accept that. I realise that because it happened a long time ago, many of us no longer believe such sacrifices need appreciating- but I will continue to remind people. IMHO one negative aspect of buying and wearing of the poppy means
that in the minds of some that absolves them from really understanding what happened.TF
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I too am very sorry that so many of our members are happy to wear the Poppy, but when they are really tested on the subject, accept that the desecration of our warships, containing as they do, the last remains of our brave serviceman, are acceptable facets
of modern times!Sorry but I will never accept that. I realise that because it happened a long time ago, many of us no longer believe such sacrifices need appreciating- but I will continue to remind people. IMHO one negative aspect of buying and wearing of the poppy means
that in the minds of some that absolves them from really understanding what happened.TF
Write your comments here...
I do not think any of the members posting find the events acceptable including myself, but accept there is not much to be done about it
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We are facing this issue at our local parish church. There is a proposal to rebuild the south transept that was demolished in the 1600's, restoring the original footprint but this may disturb some graves that have been put on that space.
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I too am very sorry that so many of our members are happy to wear the Poppy, but when they are really tested on the subject, accept that the desecration of our warships, containing as they do, the last remains of our brave serviceman, are acceptable facets of modern times!
Sorry but I will never accept that. I realise that because it happened a long time ago, many of us no longer believe such sacrifices need appreciating- but I will continue to remind people. IMHO one negative aspect of buying and wearing of the poppy means that in the minds of some that absolves them from really understanding what happened.
TF
You make too many accusations and too many assumptions regarding members TF and based only on 3 pages and at most without counting, 10 different member posts.
Is your attitude to others something to do with previous employment!
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Dave, I am sorry if I have given you a poor impression of the reasons for my very strong support for the RBL and our armed services.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with my previous occupation which is actually now over 18 years ago. And there is nothing more ex than an ex plod! Actually my Police service was in itself an anomoly because my family have had long tie ins with the armed
services.My son is an RAF Officer, and my brother was in the Royal Navy. I hope that that might clarify my position a little.
TF
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Sadly, the same desecration happens right here in the UK. A few years ago, just for the value of the scrap metal. All the brass plaques were stolen from the war memorial at Orpington. At the Parish Churchyard, all the brass plaques from the garden of remembrance
and any brass flower pots on graves were stolen. I still cannot comprehend that anyone can be so evil.0 -
It happened at the War Memorial on Plymouth Hoe a few years ago as well. Several of the bronze plaques were stolen and found cut up in a scrap yard. Foreign nationals were charged as far as I can remember.
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Wasn't the handling of these items one of the reasons for ID requirement at Scrapyard's these days? Those that steal them are dreadful but those who accepted them as scrap were as bad or worse. One assumes they'd check what they were offered before they
weighed it, otherwise the weight could be increased with non metal????0
