Term time holidays court cases dropped
Comments
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I also wonder why this law doesn't apply to private schools? My brother has two kids in a paid for school, he can take them out anytime he wants with no penalty, so this will apply to most MPs, including Gove, who brought this law in, but then they don't live in the real world do they. Neither does this law apply to home educated children. Seems totally unfair to me. Rock to crack a nut comes to mind, it was all changed due to some families taking their children out of the country for months at a time.
good point, it was brought in for political reasons rather than educational ones, ie Gove thought it would attract votes.
there is a limit under which education is affected by not attending school and which triggers the law and social services
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The way the system (that is now floored) was being used by schools as quite a money making exercise,
The decision over whether to fine rests with the head teacher, although in some areas, local authorities issue fines automatically. The local authority (and not the individual school) impose the fine and receive
the money. These holiday rules only apply to English State Schools.0 -
I used to be dead set against children being taken out of school in term time for holidays, after all, I can never have a low cost holiday (hence the caravan
). But I teach in an incredibly deprived catchment area, and the children who get a holiday, any sort of holiday, at any time, are the lucky ones
and very much the exception. So my opinion on this issue has turned around and I am overjoyed if one of my charges is having a holiday experience. Our school doesn’t fine, don’t know how we manage it, but we don’t.A little anecdote illustrating this: last year I taught a new topic (Brazil) to Year 5. My partner teacher and I thought it would be a lovely idea for the pupils to show what they had learned over the half
term by creating a ‘holiday brochure’ style class book. We explained the task to our respective classes and were met with a sea of blank faces... not one of them had seen a holiday brochure... I was so sad, but I learned a valuable lesson.
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I used to be dead set against children being taken out of school in term time for holidays, after all, I can never have a low cost holiday (hence the caravan
). But I teach in an incredibly deprived catchment area, and the children who get a holiday, any sort of holiday, at any time, are the lucky ones
and very much the exception. So my opinion on this issue has turned around and I am overjoyed if one of my charges is having a holiday experience. Our school doesn’t fine, don’t know how we manage it, but we don’t.A little anecdote illustrating this: last year I taught a new topic (Brazil) to Year 5. My partner teacher and I thought it would be a lovely idea for the pupils to show what they had learned over the half
term by creating a ‘holiday brochure’ style class book. We explained the task to our respective classes and were met with a sea of blank faces... not one of them had seen a holiday brochure... I was so sad, but I learned a valuable lesson.Wish I could click love a post instead of just 'like'. This is the most common sense post I have read lately, and obviously from someone who lives in the real world and who has experience of the issue. Not every family can afford holidays, having to spend
their money on essentials of life.0 -
. My partner teacher and I thought it would be a lovely idea for the pupils to show what they had learned over the half term by creating a ‘holiday brochure’ style class book. We explained the task to our respective classes and were met with a sea of blank faces... not one of them had seen a holiday brochure... I was so sad, but I learned a valuable lesson.
Quite.
There's more to education than meeting OFSTED targets and schools' egotistical fixation on league tables.
Parents talk to each other and know which are 'good' schools. We don't need bureaucrats to tell us.
On foreign holidays my kids saw what the English Channel and shipping separation zones and harbours looked like, how to work out money rates, communicate and set up a football match with other kids speaking 'foreign' languages, translate signs and menus, see Agincourt armour and longbows, the Le Mans race track, snow-capped Pyrenees..... things which we could afford in or out of term time but I couldn't always get leave out of term time. They still talk about it now, 30 years on, but never mention their maths lessons.
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I also wonder why this law doesn't apply to private schools? My brother has two kids in a paid for school, he can take them out anytime he wants with no penalty, so this will apply to most MPs, including Gove, who brought this law in, but then they don't
live in the real world do they. Neither does this law apply to home educated children. Seems totally unfair to me. Rock to crack a nut comes to mind, it was all changed due to some families taking their children out of the country for months at a time.That is totally at odds with the policy of the (private) schools our 2 went to. It was made crstal clear that the children had to be at school unless they were ill (doctors letter required for longer than 3 days), and that any requests for time off in
term time would be refused.Any unauthorised absence would likely lead to the parent being requested to remove the child from the school.
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One sounds like a holiday camp with educational facilities
the other sounds like a prison but you pay for the privilege rather than commit a crime
if I had to choose it would be the first one
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It was no different to a state school expecting the pupils to be in school unless ill. And why, especially if you are paying, would you not want to make sure your child was getting the full benefit of the education available!
Private schools generally have longer holidays anyway, especially in summer, achieved by having fewer of the shorter breaks and term time "in-service" days.
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not in England, the local private schools round here have all the usual half terms in October, February and June, together with three weeks at Christmas and Easter and seven weeks weeks in summer. This has been going on for years, OH used to teach in them.
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The decision over whether to fine rests with the head teacher, although in some areas, local authorities issue fines automatically.
Write your comments here...And we all know the problems with the dreaded "Discretion" be it Wardens or Head Mistresses.
There should be hard and fast rules that everybody understands, no hesitation or deviation.
K
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In Newcastle and Sunderland head teachers here do not have any decison on fines, as far as I am aware this is the case throughout England. All heads can do is approve or not approve a holiday. There is no law that allows heads to issue a fine only the councils. The attendance data is fed straight through to the local council automatically. It is the local council who then issues a fine or not. The money does not even come back into schools. If you look at the OP and story it is the coucils who are taking parents to court and now dropping the cases not schools
From the government webiste;
Your local council can give you a fine of £60, which rises to £120 if you don’t pay within 21 days. You may be prosecuted if you don’t pay the fine after 28 days.
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I'd be quite happy to pay the £60 fine (I assume per child per holiday) to give my little Gkids a good holiday. Not that I agree with fines in the first place, but if it meant that I could take them away at a time of year that they could cope with the temperatures
and not have to re-mortgage the house to do so then why not. I'd still be quids in.0 -
Exactly why the fines need to be massively increased, I'm afraid.
poacher turned gamerkeeper eh Ian
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I think that the issue of removing children from school for family holidays is very much overstated.
I had three children and during the 1980's we always took our main family holiday immediately after the August bank Holiday. I wasn't being bloody minded, it was a work requirement.
That effectively meant that all three missed at least one week - sometimes more of the Autumn term.
I am sure that it must have seriously stunted their development. My eldest daughter is now a bank Manager, my son is a Squadron Leader in the RAF, and my youngest daughter has her own business.
I feel really guilty about holding back their development!
By the way, - all three tell me that it took just a couple of hours to catch up on what they had missed!
TF
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Speaking as a fully retired ex-teacher I agree that missing a couple of weeks (at the correct time ie. not in exams/beginning of year etc) would not strongly hinder a childs education and could enrich it - assuming attendance was normally high. Far worse
are the ones who take a day of here, a day there on a regular basis - that was so frustrating and having to constantly play catch up with them was frustrating to say the least.0 -
I agree, nothing lost in a child with normally good attendance being allowed a family holiday. What I would take issue with in the recent court case is the definition of "good attendance". 90%? I don't think so! So that child could miss a day every fortnight
and the dozy judges think that's good attendance? The school I taught in (and this was before Gove's law was introduced) wouldn't even think about granting permission if the child's attendance was below 95% for the previous 12 months.0 -
Moulesey, I totally agree. My Children were expected not to miss any schooling unless absolutely necessary, apart from the family holidays previously mentioned. Obviously I have no idea now what their total attendance record was then, but I would be surprised if it were not far of the maximum apart from the family holiday.
We went by the maxim. Rule 1 = The School is always right!
Rule 2 = On the odd occasion that the school might be mistaken. + Rule 1 applies!
It worked very well for us. And perhaps more importantly the kids knew exactly where they stood!
TF
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The worst thing about the fines etc seems to be the way they are applied. I heard the other day of a family hammered for taking a holiday in term time even though one parent was terminally ill. Common sense and humanity need to come into it too.
I am not sure my children would have seen holiday brochures because of caravanning etc but I do see the sadness of a whole class looking blank on that. Hopefully the project inspired them to dream and achieve.
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Texts from schools to parents about tests and homework can boost secondary pupils' maths grades by
the equivalent of a month in class, research suggests. seehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36794312
Thre you go that's a month they can have off in term time then, on a club site hopefully0 -
Texts from schools to parents about tests and homework can boost secondary pupils' maths grades by
the equivalent of a month in class, research suggests. seehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36794312
Thre you go that's a month they can have off in term time then, on a club site hopefullyWrite your comments here...well there you go. Is this the new education policy. . No need for pupils ever to attend school at all. A few texts every day obviously does the same job as teachers in the school room.
Teachers will like that --- they will be able to extend their annual holidays from 13 weeks to 52.
K
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M mmm nice idea K , but parents would have to then pay for all that babysitting time if they could find someone to do it , we are not all as daft as teachers l o l
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Texts from schools to parents about tests and homework can boost secondary pupils' maths grades by
the equivalent of a month in class, research suggests. seehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36794312
Thre you go that's a month they can have off in term time then, on a club site hopefullyWrite your comments here...well there you go. Is this the new education policy. . No need for pupils ever to attend school at all. A few texts every day obviously does the same job as teachers in the school room.
Teachers will like that --- they will be able to extend their annual holidays from 13 weeks to 52.
K
teachers do not get holidays, I've explained this before, they are only paid to attend work for 195 days a year. Unlike most other jobs there is no mention of paid holidays at all in our (state funded) contracts
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Texts from schools to parents about tests and homework can boost secondary pupils' maths grades by
the equivalent of a month in class, research suggests. seehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36794312
Thre you go that's a month they can have off in term time then, on a club site hopefullyWrite your comments here...well there you go. Is this the new education policy. . No need for pupils ever to attend school at all. A few texts every day obviously does the same job as teachers in the school room.
Teachers will like that --- they will be able to extend their annual holidays from 13 weeks to 52.
K
teachers do not get holidays, I've explained this before, they are only paid to attend work for 195 days a year. Unlike most other jobs there is no mention of paid holidays at all in our (state funded) contracts
Corners...Ignore the latest goading post from one of the usual suspects
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Exactly Corners, my husband is a Teaching Assistant in a Special needs school. He is paid for the hours he works, which is then annualised, so he gets zero paid holidays. I think the general public would rather believe that Teachers and TAs get 13 weeks off on full pay, believe me it isn't so.
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Many years ago a friend and neighbour worked in the local high school kitchens , they used to get payed half their pay in school holudays but had to go in a week before the end of school hols to spring clean the kitchens, the policy may have changed now
,Going by the posts above we all must have assumed teachers were payed for the summer hols, was this ever the case ? We're teachers payed at some time ? Personally until last reading pist on here I have never heard any different
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The pay is only for 195 days, but this is then divided into 12 and paid monthy. This has been the case for as long as I can remember.
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Exactly Corners, my husband is a Teaching Assistant in a Special needs school. He is paid for the hours he works, which is then annualised, so he gets zero paid holidays. I think the
general public would rather believe that Teachers and TAs get 13 weeks off on full pay,
believe me it isn't so.Not all the general public, SM, just some with very little knowledge of what actually goes on in schools!
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