Times table to be learnt at Primary School

It appears that the standard of teaching of numeracy has deteriorated to the extent that many 11 year olds cannot do the basic arithmetic which most six year olds could do 30 years ago. 

I wonder why ????  

K 

Well you say that K, but I'm not so sure that is the case!

Certainly whilst my kids have not learned by rote the times tables (not in school), the level level of mathematics in general is much higher than I did at their age.

My boy who is 10 has been doing advanced angles, manipulation and sums with fractions and even basic algebra for the last year in primary school - most of which I did not cover until secondary school and he is still a year away from secondary school!

Whilst the focus is certainly different from 30 years ago, I would personally say he has a better understanding of the core principles of mathematics than I had at his age!  

Write your comments here...I accept that in a number of cases the brightest primary pupils will have an excellent grasp of arithmetic and basic mathematics when they move up to secondary school.  They will have had encouragement and input from their parents. 

This is not the case for many of the mainstream primary pupils, as highlighted on the BBC news this morning and what I was eluding to in my post.

 To have reached the end of primary education and failing to understand the subject of numeracy as reported, is a poor enditctment of the standard of teaching in certain primary schools.  Of that there is absolutely no doubt. 

K 

I would suggest that the 12x table still has merit as it enables mental dexterity. The ability to work apart from a decimal point will improve a childs ability to manipulate numbers without recourse to a calculator.

I've always found the 12x useful for working in feet and inches. I see this new plan is only for English schools.

11 plus is still done - my boy has just passed his!

When I was in junior school we learnt the tables every morning the whole class had to recite them together , you had as Adimral said clever dicks like him and myself who could actually do it, then you had those whose just hummed along to the tune I'm sure you can all remember , 

ones one is one        1x1    Two twos are four  2x2=4 

How come everyone who once went to school thinks  that that makes them an expert on Education Policy?After 38 years of classroom teaching  what I have learned is that everyone has a   rectum and opinions

How come everyone who once went to school thinks  that that makes them an expert on Education Policy?After 38 years of classroom teaching  what I have learned is that everyone has a   rectum and opinions

I have nothing but admiration for teachers.There can be few jobs that must give as much satisfaction and reward as helping children on the road of life.

peter.

I have also wondered why 11 & 12 times tables still exist in this metric age. Has anyone's lives been transformed by knowing the 12 times tables. We can all learn something parrot fashion but do we understand? Its a bit like leaning a poem off by heart but
not understanding the content or the feeling it portrays. Children should enjoy and understand numbers that is unlikely to happen by learning the 12 times table.

David 

Provided there is an understanding of what multiplication is, there's nothing more to understand in learning tables.

The analogy with a poem is not valid; learning the tables by rote allows one to carry out mental arithmetic quickly and accurately. I agree that there is a great deal of learning which should not be taught by rote but the times tables is not one of them.
Indeed there's really no other way with tables. The only way to know them is to learn them by rote.

Nor is there any logic whatsoever to the notion that we should only go up to ten times because we are in a decimal age. If that were true then why bother with 6 times or 9 times or 8 times. The question I would ask is why stop at 12. In my view it is very
useful to know them up to at least 15 times.

Of course there are calculators nowadays and I recognise that, but having some number dexterity is very useful and tables are a vital part of that - at least up to 12 times.   

but back then we probably had more respect for the teachers ,so we learnt them , whereas, do the kids of today have that respect?????

HD - ask to visit your local primary or secondary school - walk round on a normal teaching day. I bet you'll find the youngsters have a great deal more respect for their teachers at school than they do for adults in general outside the school gates!

Todays kids are way more advanced than I ever was. Based on my extended family I have had conversations on politics/space/engineering with 8-10yr olds, it's astounding the level of understanding they have. I never start these deep conversations either, today's
kids are more rounded re education. I had no interest in these subjects at 8-10yrs old. It's the engagement of Teachers that make the difference.

The respect aspect usually works along the lines of 0-5 parents  are infallible, 5-10 teacher is infallible, 11+ I'm infallible. 

but back then we probably had more respect for the teachers ,so we learnt them , whereas, do the kids of today have that respect?????

HD - ask to visit your local primary or secondary school - walk round on a normal teaching day. I bet you'll find the youngsters have a great deal more respect for their teachers at school than they do for adults in general outside the school gates!

Write your comments here...That proves nothing M except that the kids are in a captive environment and not free to say what they really think. 

Try speaking to kids about school staff when they are outside school and you will find they are more honest about a particular teacher's abilities. The expression he / she is a rubbish teacher  is heard as often as he / she is a good teacher. 

But back to the thread -- The BBC has highlighted a major concern about some primary pupils reaching the age of moving to secondary school without any numeracy skills. I would suspect that the idea of  teaching of times tables  would be an aid to correct this. 

K