Mining/Fracking - old and new
Anyone else watching Look North, and been astounded by two news items, one after the other. The first dealt with the closure of the last coal mine in Yorkshire, and the import of coal from overseas to run Drax powerstation. The
very next news item was about 'Fracking' in North Yorkshire.
It seems incongruous, that an energy source, with the infrastructure already in place, is being supplanted by a 'prospective' energy source, with new infrastructure needing to be investigated, developed and installed! It appears that shale oil and gas,
even with the cost of development and new infrastructure, will be cheaper than the old coal which is just sitting underground, with a team of redundant miners who are more than willing to continue.
How can this be?
Comments
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Get the gas out - at least that should ensure lower prices in the UK (we do import liquified gas) and should also help to keep the price of leccy and driving down.Apparently oil and gas prices (according to one report I recently read) are closely linked.
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Gas is cleaner than coal (relatively speaking).
Gas is much easier and cheaper to transport and use (very little infrastructure required).
Once the well is fractured, the gas comes out with minimal further intervention - every block of coal must be manually extracted.
Apples and oranges I'm afraid!
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Val when George Osbornes father in law as a big investment in fracking companies, what do you expect. If they had kept coal,ones open there is a gas called methane that was pumped out of the pits and burnt into the atomosphere. There is over 32 million tons.
Of coal being imported that is equivalent to 32 pits working getting it out. Short term planning I'm afraid.0 -
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of fracking and closing collieries, how on earth it's cheaper and more environmentally friendly to buy and transport coal all the way from Columbia, rather than from 7 miles down the road is, I'm afraid, beyond the grasp
of my simple mind!
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It's cheap labour, huge scale of extraction, no delays or high cost of planning applications, and relatively cheap transport costs because of glut of oil.
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Bru they have just closed the last deep coal mine and it would cost far to much to start opening them again. Short term planning comes to mind. Although britain sits on millions of tons of coal. Anyone who thinks fracking is good should really see all the
bad publicity about it, including water from the tap being flammable.0 -
I was just talking about coal Mollie, I know it's sad to see a mine closing but at least we will have future stocks. A family member has been involved in coal drilling, so I'm pleased we have stocks. The jury's out on fracking, I don't know enough about it to comment, except that it has brought oil prices down.
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Bru, I was a miner for 25 years and I don't understand when you say we will conserve our coal. The best coal is deep mined and as I said to open a coal mine it would cost millions, another point is that there wont be many experienced miners left if they get round to opening coal mines again. I honestly think it would be a pipe dream, as I said short term planning
, what should have happened is they should have kept mines open on a maintenance basis, then we would have easier access.
whats wrong in investing in renewable energy sources?
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Get the gas out - at least that should ensure lower prices in the UK (we do import liquified gas) and should also help to keep the price of leccy and driving down.Apparently oil and gas prices (according to one report I recently read) are closely linked.
I profess no knowledge but a news item I saw on fracking just this week said that it would not cause prices to drop because of the high cost of extraction relative to the yield.
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Bru they have just closed the last deep coal mine and it would cost far to much to start opening them again. Short term planning comes to mind. Although britain sits on millions of tons of coal. Anyone who thinks fracking is good should really see all the bad publicity about it, including water from the tap being flammable.
And equally you should read the independant scientific and engineering literature to balance that sensationalist anti fracking propagander. Much of the north sea gas has been fractured, its not a new technology. There are waters in the US that are flamable, but that is nothing to do with fracking, they are naturally occuring.
PS I dont think it is good - I'd much rather see it left in the ground - we are destroying this planet, the only one we have and are wasting its finite resources.
Unfortunately, its not something we can do unilaterally, without returning to the stone age, whilst other carry on regardless. We are stuck in an energy race and cannot afford to take our foot off the gas first!
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Bru, I was a miner for 25 years and I don't understand when you say we will conserve our coal. The best coal is deep mined and as I said to open a coal mine it would cost millions, another point is that there wont be many experienced miners left if they
get round to opening coal mines again. I honestly think it would be a pipe dream, as I said short term planning, what should have happened is they should have kept mines open on a maintenance basis, then we would have easier access.
whats wrong in investing in renewable energy sources?
What renewable sources?
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I am like most MPs I don't want it in my backyard. Most fracking is being done up north, there ain't much being done in London or Oxfordshire, any ideas why. Also there was a promise not to frack in national parks, whatever happened to that promise.
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Bru, I was a miner for 25 years and I don't understand when you say we will conserve our coal. The best coal is deep mined and as I said to open a coal mine it would cost millions, another point is that there wont be many experienced miners left if they
get round to opening coal mines again. I honestly think it would be a pipe dream, as I said short term planning, what should have happened is they should have kept mines open on a maintenance basis, then we would have easier access.
whats wrong in investing in renewable energy sources?
...And when they close the mines most of the equipment is left underground and arfter a while it will either rot away or be crushed as the millions tons above sink
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Bru they have just closed the last deep coal mine and it would cost far to much to start opening them again. Short term planning comes to mind. Although britain sits on millions of tons of coal. Anyone who thinks fracking is good should really see all the
bad publicity about it, including water from the tap being flammable.And equally you should read the independant scientific and engineering literature to balance that sensationalist anti fracking propagander. Much of the north sea gas has been fractured, its not a new technology. There are waters in the US that are flamable,
but that is nothing to do with fracking, they are naturally occuring.PS I dont think it is good - I'd much rather see it left in the ground - we are destroying this planet, the only one we have and are wasting its finite resources.
Unfortunately, its not something we can do unilaterally, without returning to the stone age, whilst other carry on regardless. We are stuck in an energy race and cannot afford to take our foot off the gas first!
So why were coalmines allowed to shut to satisfy one person.
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I am like most MPs I don't want it in my backyard. Most fracking is being done up north, there ain't much being done in London or Oxfordshire, any ideas why. Also there was a promise not to frack in national parks, whatever happened to that promise.
...Sorry but it is being done country wide wherever ,they think that shale oil exists including the south ,its no use trying in a lot of the South, as it is mostly clay and chalk or gravel
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So why isn't there investment in renewable energy, like wind turbines, movement of the sea, power from rivers, haven't we got these things in this country. Pity we cannot discuss the true reasons, I would but the thread would be closed.
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I am like most MPs I don't want it in my backyard. Most fracking is being done up north, there ain't much being done in London or Oxfordshire, any ideas why. Also there was a promise not to frack in national parks, whatever happened to that promise.
Mainly because you have got to drill where the gas actually is!
They are not fracking IN the nationl park they are fracking 2.5 km under the national park (from outside the national park) vertical and horizontal drilling is the norm in the north sea
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Bru they have just closed the last deep coal mine and it would cost far to much to start opening them again. Short term planning comes to mind. Although britain sits on millions of tons of coal. Anyone who thinks fracking is good should really see all the
bad publicity about it, including water from the tap being flammable.And equally you should read the independant scientific and engineering literature to balance that sensationalist anti fracking propagander. Much of the north sea gas has been fractured, its not a new technology. There are waters in the US that are flamable,
but that is nothing to do with fracking, they are naturally occuring.PS I dont think it is good - I'd much rather see it left in the ground - we are destroying this planet, the only one we have and are wasting its finite resources.
Unfortunately, its not something we can do unilaterally, without returning to the stone age, whilst other carry on regardless. We are stuck in an energy race and cannot afford to take our foot off the gas first!
So why were coalmines allowed to shut to satisfy one person.
Thats not a debate I'm going to be able to win with an ex miner now is it!!!
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Climates getting warmer, I'm not complaining but do feel sorry for future generations, how long will the earth be able to sustain life.
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So why isn't there investment in renewable energy, like wind turbines, movement of the sea, power from rivers, haven't we got these things in this country. Pity we cannot discuss the true reasons, I would but the thread would be closed.
The main reason is they are all rubbish!
Offshore wind is about the most expensive form of electricity going and it is unreliable (as in it only generates when the wind is blowing)
Add to that, that most "renewable" infrastructure means that it will never pay back the carbon needed to make and install the equipment in its useful lifetime - well you may as well just burn fossil fuels.
We should be ploughing money into fusion reactors - if we can only develop the technology to safely harness the power of the sun, making limitless clean energy....
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Climates getting warmer, I'm not complaining but do feel sorry for future generations, how long will the earth be able to sustain life.
Agree with you there MD!
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So why isn't there investment in renewable energy, like wind turbines, movement of the sea, power from rivers, haven't we got these things in this country. Pity we cannot discuss the true reasons, I would but the thread would be closed.
Spot on MD, it would appear they are trying to force us in the direction of Fracking by removing subsidies on solar energy and restricting planning for turbines. One local Con. MP was recently bragging that
they stopped a farmer from filling his field with solar panels and refused planning for three turbines to be erected in an old local quarry. We have only too well seen the power that our rivers can produce and I can’t believe that we could not harness the
power of our tides. Yes it would require considerable investment but the long term benefits far outweigh that.0 -
Here's some more info for you nevers, my con MP as just told a constituent that parliament do not get involved with Planning, excuse me what's happened at Blackpool, parliament have got involved. Sorry but they change the rules whenever they want.
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I could say more MD but I don't want the thread to close.
One word manipulation.
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That's me finished no more comments on this thread political or otherwise.
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So why isn't there investment in renewable energy, like wind turbines, movement of the sea, power from rivers, haven't we got these things in this country. Pity we cannot discuss the true reasons, I would but the thread would be closed.
Spot on MD, it would appear they are trying to force us in the direction of Fracking by removing subsidies on solar energy and restricting planning for turbines. One local Con. MP was recently bragging that they stopped a farmer from filling his field with solar panels and refused planning for three turbines to be erected in an old local quarry. We have only too well seen the power that our rivers can produce and I can’t believe that we could not harness the power of our tides. Yes it would require considerable investment but the long term benefits far outweigh that.
You have answered your own question.....subsidies!
Whilst non of the renewables are economically viable without subsidies paid for by grannies in fuel poverty, fracking will be self funding AND generate tax revenue for the government!
Many renewable, like tidal, have massive environmental and ecosystem wide implications. If they were easy, effective, reliable they would have been done already!!!
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