How much do you pay for your gas ?

At my current average annual gas consumption a refillable system saves me £75 per year. 

I am not exactly on the breadline but that is not to be sniffed at 

That's some gas you get through. £75 of gas would probably last me 2 or 3 years including using the external gas point on the van for BBQs

I am only on EHU in the winter months. 

We prefer no facility sites such as THS's rallying and basic CL sites. 

Fully appreciate this is not for everyone but for those like us, a refillable system and a solar panel is becoming standard these days 

We were at the Lawns Caravan show last weekend and Safefill had a stand there, it was very busy not sure if people were enquiring or buying though.

same here, Peedee....had our gaslow about five years now, just so easy....especially in europe....

Merve.Just got this from Trading Standards via my M.P.Makes interesting reading.

Mike

User Information Sheet 026 Revised July 2016 Guidance for Public LPG Refuelling Facility Operators on the Filling of Freestanding LPG Cylinders Scope This User Information Sheet applies to any operator of a public LPG refuelling facility that allows the
refuelling of customer-owned freestanding LPG cylinders. Introduction UKLPG advises that freestanding LPG cylinders should not be filled at public LPG refuelling facilities by customers or untrained personnel. The majority of LPG cylinders(1) in service in
the UK are owned by the gas supplier whose name is on the cylinder. These must ONLY be filled in a filling plant by the gas supplier or their authorised filling contractor. It is unlawful for anyone else to fill cylinders that are the property of the gas supplier.
This guidance provides a brief summary on the duties & implications for the Facility Operator of filling LPG freestanding cylinders and the associated societal risks. Customer-owned freestanding LPG cylinders have been available for a number of years and are
generally sold to private persons who have responsibilities for their cylinder. The Red Guide(2) states: ‘Portable LPG Cylinders (24); Customers or untrained attendants should not be allowed to fill portable LPG cylinders from the Autogas dispenser’(3). ADR(4)
states: “The filling of pressure receptacles may only be carried out by specially equipped centres, with qualified staff using appropriate procedures”. The Law Regulations impose duties on any operator of a public LPG refuelling facility to ensure safety obligations
are met. These facilities are places of work and their personnel have responsibility for the safety of everyone on the site, including the general public. Should a public refuelling facility owner/operator, or their employees, authorise the dispensing of LPG
then they are considered to be the “filler”. The UK Health and Safety Regulations that are applicable include the:  Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations;  Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations;  Provision and Use of Work
Equipment Regulations;  Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order;  Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations; these enact ADR that includes the filling of LPG cylinders. The public LPG refuelling facility operator should
also consider:  Legal implications under Regulations listed above; UKLPG • the trade association for the LPG industry in the UK• Page 2 of 2 A Camden House •Warwick Road• Kenilworth• Warwickshire• CV8 1TH• E mail@uklpg.org – Published Version  Their insurance
position both with regard to on site activities, responsibilities and subsequent use of the cylinder by the customer;  Their position with regard to weights and measures and consumer legislation;  Any planning and local authority consents. Summary of Emergency
Procedures Emergency procedures need to be in place to provide guidance to the employees in the event of:  Overfilling of a cylinder;  A leaking cylinder;  An uncontrolled release of LPG;  Fire/Explosion. Note: An overfilled or leaking cylinder must not
be allowed to leave the site until made safe. Summary of filling procedures Filling procedures need to be in place and include:  The cylinder to be filled should be manufactured to a suitable Standard and be specifically designed for use with Propane;  The
cylinder to be filled should be suitably marked and must be within test date. If manufactured after 2003 the cylinder must also be p marked to show compliance with TPED(5). (Cylinders should be re-tested at specified intervals. For composite cylinders the
period should not exceed 5 years, and for steel cylinders 10 years);  The cylinder condition should be checked before filling;  The cylinder should be safely filled and subjected to post fill checks by a competent person. Note: More details are given in
BS EN1439 References (1) LPG Cylinders - Defined in ADR as a pressure receptacle, this includes the cylinder valve and any fittings (2) The Red Guide - Petrol Filling Stations Guidance on Managing the Risks of Fire & Explosion published by the Energy Institute
(3) Autogas Dispenser - Liquefied Petroleum Gas dispenser located at LPG refuelling facilities (4) ADR - The European Agreement concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road; the “Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure
Equipment Regulations” enacts this in the UK (5) TPED - Transportable Pressure Equipment Directive Further Reading • UKLPG Codes of Practice; including 10 and 20 provide details on LPG operations • www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/stdcurr.htm HSE Approved Design Standards
& Specifications • BS EN 1439: LPG equipment and accessories, Procedure for checking LPG cylinders before, during and after filling • AEGPL (The European LPG Association) - Position on Cylinder Filling at Autogas Stations: www.aegpl.eu Status of UKLPG information
sheets UKLPG Information Sheets are technical documents prepared and issued under the authority of the UKLPG Technical and Safety Management Team; the contents have the same status as a Code of Practice so members of UKLPG are expected to conform to the information
provided. Whilst some of the documents are prepared in collaboration with the HSE, all the information is available to their inspectors and they

Uklpg don't set UK regulations.. 

Think Safefill need to take this up with their lawyers. 

The UKLPG Association is a trade body made up of companies through out the indusrty, not just bottled gas suppliers but Refineries, Eqiupment suppliers, Auto Gas installers, Domestic Installers, Pressure vessel manufacturers, LPG training organisations,
Cylinder repatriation companies and many more. Having been a member of the Trade association and serverd on a number of committees, the association  advises the Government here and  it's European counterparts on the safe use, installation and transportation
of LPG across the board. Safefill if it wishes can become a member, actually surprised it has chosen not too.  It is not a Calor controlled body. 

I t is not a Cal

The UKLPG Association is a trade body made up of companies through out the indusrty, not just bottled gas suppliers but Refineries, Eqiupment suppliers, Auto Gas installers, Domestic Installers, Pressure vessel manufacturers, LPG training organisations, Cylinder repatriation companies and many more. Having been a member of the Trade association and serverd on a number of committees, the association  advises the Government here and  it's European counterparts on the safe use, installation and transportation of LPG across the board. Safefill if it wishes can become a member, actually surprised it has chosen not too.  It is not a Calor controlled body. 

Didn't say it was a Calor controlled body.

I said it represents the commercial interests of bottled gas manufacturers. Who is the biggest in the UK, oh yes, CALOR 

It's therefore not independent and should be challenged by Safefill 

Apologies for the formatting I am on a smartphone 

 

Fysherman, have you looked on the UKLPG website as to who are members and therefore who they represent? One of the full members is The Caravan Club. The UKLPG membership page is
here. 

Fysherman, have you looked on the UKLPG website as to who are members and therefore who they represent? One of the full members is The Caravan Club. The UKLPG membership page is
here. 

No I hadn't. Thanks for that. I struggle on the smartphone even with bins on. 

Perhaps the club could comment? What is the club stance on refillable cylinders which save members money and what representation have they made on behalf of members? 

I am not cynical enough to think how much revenue they are losing to refillable cylinders so never even raising the matter. 

Go on then, I am a bit cynical 

Fisherman you can go back (May 2016) to a discussion about Safefill on which I did put on a reply I received from The Caravan Club when I asked about using Safefill. 

The discussion is
here

In General the gas companies are not that bothered by Safefill or Gaslow because the volume of business lost to this market sector is small In comparison to the rest of their business. What they are concerned about is the fact that the more people getting
into refilling these types of cylinder will encourage the unscrupulous operators amongst them to start to refill other manufacturers cylinders. This is a big problem to these manufacturers. Let's say one of these filing setups illegally fill and overfill a
Calor cylinder and then that cylinder blows the safety valve and leaks, it catches fire somebody is killed or property damaged. Everybody would say it was Calors fault because it was a Calor cylinder. It would be them to answer the questions even though they
have not done anything wrong. This is not a Calor problem but an industry problem larger then most people know about the illegal filling of cylinders, they certainly do not want to encourage it. That's why they try to restrict it wherever they can. 

In General the gas companies are not that bothered by Safefill or Gaslow because the volume of business lost to this market sector is small In comparison to the rest of their business. What they are concerned about is the fact that the more people getting into refilling these types of cylinder will encourage the unscrupulous operators amongst them to start to refill other manufacturers cylinders. This is a big problem to these manufacturers. Let's say one of these filing setups illegally fill and overfill a Calor cylinder and then that cylinder blows the safety valve and leaks, it catches fire somebody is killed or property damaged. Everybody would say it was Calors fault because it was a Calor cylinder. It would be them to answer the questions even though they have not done anything wrong. This is not a Calor problem but an industry problem larger then most people know about the illegal filling of cylinders, they certainly do not want to encourage it. That's why they try to restrict it wherever they can. 

Im sorry but I really do have to reply to this! Firstly, they are very bothered! Yes, it might be small now but it's growing in this country and throughout Europe and for every Safefill cylinder refilled that means that Calor and Co can't rent out one of their cylinders and/or get some sucker to sign on the dotted line for a cylinder rental contract!!! I believe that Calor and co are genuinely worried about the loss of revenue that has worked unopposed for years! How long will it be before all sizes of cylinders are offered for sale??? Secondly, Safefill is about OVERT filling not COVERT filling. This is typical of the rumours and counter rumours circulating at the moment. Who starts these rumours? - certainly not Safefill. Calor cylinders are not made to be refilled by the user, they are specifically made to be filled by Calor and rented out. Safefill are MADE TO BE REFILLED and have passed every bit of legislation there is in terms of safety, burst tests and the like. Unfortunately there have always been idiots who refill Calor cylinders to save a few bob and I agree with you that the practice is highly dangerous as the 80% rule cannot be practised. Again, Safefill pass that test too! Don't let's throw the baby out with the bath water shall we! For Safefill to be lumped in with the illegal practice of refilling steel cylinders is rather like saying that everyone should be banned from driving for safety's sake because a few of us are idiots on the road. Find and prosecute the culprits and use Safefill to promote good practice!! It seems to me that if one method fails to halt the Safefill rise then they try another- they are desperate to kill off any competition and if they do (which they won't) we will all suffer!! 

God post Merve, agree with every word.