Booking a specific pitch
Comments
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Yes, I'm sure it's probably been discussed before and I've always felt quite ambivalent about it.......but having stayed at two sites on this holiday where it was possible to book a specific pitch (but only if you wanted to and paid a small extra charge)
I think it is an excellent idea.How about the CC introducing this as an option?
Write your comments here...cloud cuckoo land , springs to mind ........ whatever next , the mind boggles
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I think that would only work, and even then not that well, if a block of pitches were set aside to be bookable, but then that would limit the choice for all.
If any pitch were bookable in advance then say I came to site X having booked for 7 nights, and chose pitch 23. Warden says "OK, but that pitch is prebooked in 3 days time so you will have to move then to pitch 25"
Nobody wants to be doing that sort of thing.
Pre- booking of individual pitches is bound to lead to less availability all round and more pitches sitting empty between bookings.
Only works on sites where the bookable dates are fixed, or there is over-capacity.
In your example, you would simply chose a different pitch. Is that any different to arriving and your preferred pitch already being occupied, but then coming free three days later? You wouldn't need to move then, would you?
Regarding availability, as I said before, pre-booking simply moves the selection process to the time of booking, instead of people chosing randomly as they arrive. There shouldn't be any difference to availability. The jigsaw of pitches / days has to fit
together whenever the choice is made.On your final point, we've used several sites where you can pre-book a pitch and they let you come and go on whatever day of the week you want. It's not a problem to them.
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I can see there's probably a demand for choosing HS or grass, but I seriously doubt sufficient demand to book a specific pitch. It's not as far as I can see, even amongst CT regulars, a priority and, to be honest, the argument that the CC should do it simply
because commercials do it is unconvincing.0 -
Dog owners by the dog walk, those with kids by the play area, it is not rocket science I am sure members would choose the correct area or near.
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Dog owners by the dog walk, those with kids by the play area, it is not rocket science I am sure members would choose the correct area or near.
well if it was ever considered, can't see it myself though, might it be just those one or two pitches in the couple of areas mentioned and maybe one or two pitches near the toilets for fellow disabled members.
On second thoughts nah, keep as is!
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Dog owners by the dog walk, those with kids by the play area, it is not rocket science I am sure members would choose the correct area or near.
Write your comments here...yes it's not rocket science , let's just leave things as they are ..... unless you're one of those special members of course
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I see it as only a matter of time before, even the CC, is dragged kicking and screaming, into the 21st century and offering this.
Might be after the sites are taken over by a commercial organisation though and they are left as an insurance broker and travel agency......
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considering the length of time its taken to 'trial' half a dozen site on a booking strategy that allows HS/non to be selected (and this seriously cannot be rocket science) theres no chance of full pitch selection (even if willing) prior to hell freezing
over...Write your comments here...yes I think we are near the next ice age, and the trial should be over by then, why trial choice in the first place it seems it would be quicker to convert all to h/s
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I think that would only work, and even then not that well, if a block of pitches were set aside to be bookable, but then that would limit the choice for all.
If any pitch were bookable in advance then say I came to site X having booked for 7 nights, and chose pitch 23. Warden says "OK, but that pitch is prebooked in 3 days time so you will have to move then to pitch 25"
Nobody wants to be doing that sort of thing.
Pre- booking of individual pitches is bound to lead to less availability all round and more pitches sitting empty between bookings.
Only works on sites where the bookable dates are fixed, or there is over-capacity.
In your example, you would simply chose a different pitch. Is that any different to arriving and your preferred pitch already being occupied, but then coming free three days later? You wouldn't need to move then, would you?
Regarding availability, as I said before, pre-booking simply moves the selection process to the time of booking, instead of people chosing randomly as they arrive. There shouldn't be any difference to availability. The jigsaw of pitches / days has to fit
together whenever the choice is made.On your final point, we've used several sites where you can pre-book a pitch and they let you come and go on whatever day of the week you want. It's not a problem to them.
So when we arrive we have to get a list from the warden of the pitches that will be free for the next 7 nights?
What if, in a busy period, there are no pitches that are free for all of the next 7 days?
It seems that you would only have 2 choices, move pitch or shorten your stay. The latter would just not work when you have a 2 month tour booked using 12+ different sites.
I cannot see any advantage to either the Club or the majority of Members in allowing booking of specific pitches.
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I explained in my earlier post that the result of allowing individual members to book specific pitches would be lots of remaining gaps that would not necessarily meet the requirements of those booking later. The result of this would be that folk would either have to change pitches throughout their stay or book a pitch at some other site.
Under this system, it is feasible that someone might be asked to swap pitches once or even more than once during a stay. In my earlier posts, I never dreamed that members would be prepared to swap pitches, even if only once, on the same site though out their stay. I wouldn't be prepared, and my gut feeling is that many members would not be happy in swapping pitches. The result of this would be a decrease in the number of bookings as folks would book elsewhere instead, and the extra income the Club might make through charging more to book a specific pitch, I feel is unlikely to make up for the revenue lost through a decrease in bookings.
In the past, when I have booked specific pitches, I have always done it over the phone, or by email conversation. If the Club had to use this system, there would need to be a staff increase at East Grinstead to deal with the more complex booking system. It could probably be done online (although I don't know of a camp site where there website is sufficiently well organised/ detailed to be able to accomplish this). While possible, it would make the Caravan Club website rather complex - it would have to show the booking for every pitch on every Caravan Club Site.
Into all this, we would also need to factor in the effect of the current system for cancellations. If someone cancelled a booking 72 hours before the start of his stay, it then means that a pitch might then be available for, let's say, a 7 day period, where someone else is already booked in on a split pitch and would needlessly have to move pitches. Someone else could also come along last minute and book the 7 day period on one pitch, where someone who booked earlier would have to move!
On balance, there is nothing that I have read in this thread that convinces me that it would be a good move for the Club to allow booking of specific pitches at this moment of time.
David
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.......let me try and explain this....
If a site had just 3 pitches. Let's give an example over a 7 day period. Pitch A is booked on days 1,2 &3 by person 1. Pitch B is booked on days 3,4&5 by person 2. Pitch C is booked on days 5,6&7 by person 3. If someone wanted a 7 night stay (person
4), it couldn't be done without moving pitches.If pitches were not booked, but allocated on arrival, person 1 would choose pitch A when he arrived. Person 4 might choose pitch C for the 7 days. Person 2 arrives on day 3 and has to go on pitch B as it is the only one available. Person 3 arrives on
day 5 and has to go on pitch A as it is the only one available (person 1 has already departed on day 3) Therefore all 4 people have been accommodated for the full length of their stay on 3 pitches.Multiply this sort of problem by the number of people requiring a pitch and the number of pitches..... I hope this makes some sort of sense.
David
I book holidays in December for the following year. Anyone unable to do this would be disadvantaged. I prefer availability of all free pitches - gives everyone the same oportunity
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Let me say it again.......you would not have to change pitches during your booked stay.
The booking system would ensure that there were enough pitches available to accommodate everyone's stay.......just the same as it does now.
In fact, a computerised system would manage the process a lot better and more efficiently than the current system, whereby everyone just turns up and choses a pitch randomly.
And even under the current, random system, have you ever had to move pitch? From what David says, under the current system the computer might say that there is availability on a site of 7 nights, but when you arrive, those 7 nights are split across 2 or 3 pitches because of the way they have been occupied and how long their stay is. That just doesn't happen and there is no reason why it would happen if pre-booking of pitches were allowed.
I'm quite happy to debate whether the principle of pre-booking is acceptable, but please let's not get into a debate about something that would never happen - this isn't the Euopean referendum, you know!
And another point worth repeating - if you didn't like the idea of pre-booking and would prefer to wait till you get there.....then you could.
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Let me say it again.......you would not have to change pitches during your booked stay.
The booking system would ensure that there were enough pitches available to accommodate everyone's stay.......just the same as it does now.
In fact, a computerised system would manage the process a lot better and more efficiently than the current system, whereby everyone just turns up and choses a pitch randomly.
And even under the current, random system, have you ever had to move pitch? From what David says, under the current system the computer might say that there is availability on a site of 7 nights, but when you arrive, those 7 nights are split across 2 or
3 pitches because of the way they have been occupied and how long their stay is. That just doesn't happen and there is no reason why it would happen if pre-booking of pitches were allowed.I'm quite happy to debate whether the principle of pre-booking is acceptable, but please let's not get into a debate about something that would never happen - this isn't the Euopean referendum, you know!
And another point worth repeating - if you didn't like the idea of pre-booking and would prefer to wait till you get there.....then you could.
Write your comments here...Would "Wardens Discretion" help or hinder this process.
K
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.......let me try and explain this....
If a site had just 3 pitches. Let's give an example over a 7 day period. Pitch A is booked on days 1,2 &3 by person 1. Pitch B is booked on days 3,4&5 by person 2. Pitch C is booked on days 5,6&7 by person 3. If someone wanted a 7 night stay (person 4), it couldn't be done without moving pitches.
If pitches were not booked, but allocated on arrival, person 1 would choose pitch A when he arrived. Person 4 might choose pitch C for the 7 days. Person 2 arrives on day 3 and has to go on pitch B as it is the only one available. Person 3 arrives on day 5 and has to go on pitch A as it is the only one available (person 1 has already departed on day 3) Therefore all 4 people have been accommodated for the full length of their stay on 3 pitches.
Multiply this sort of problem by the number of people requiring a pitch and the number of pitches..... I hope this makes some sort of sense.
David
Ian, perhaps I didn't explain clearly enough.
To make it easy, take it (as before), over an 7 night period.
On booking day Person 1 (P1), 2 (P2) and 3 (P3) book their pitches - they can choose any of the pitches available at the time of booking, and decide on::
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Pitch 1 P1 P1 P1
Pitch 2 P2 P2 P2
Pitch 3 P3 P3 P3
The next day, person 4( P4) comes along and wants to book a 7 day pitch, starting on Day 1. The computer won't let him do it without changing pitches. The problem has been caused by persons 1, 2 and 3, making a booking before person 4. However, there are sufficient pitches available to accommodate person 4, which would be available if members chose pitches in order of arrival, on site. See below:
On day 1, person 1 and person 4 arrive. They choose:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Pitch 1 P1 P1 P1
Pitch 2
Pitch 3 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4
On day 3, Person 2 comes along for three night and can only use Pitch 2:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Pitch 1 P1 P1 P1
Pitch 2 P2 P2 P2
Pitch 3 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4
On Day 5, Person 3 comes along and can only use Pitch 1, making:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Pitch 1 P1 P1 P1 P3 P3 P3
Pitch 2 P2 P2 P2
Pitch 3 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4 P4
As the arrival times are a different order to the booking order, it is possible to fit people in without changing pitches. If the pitches were booked as first described - with Person 1, 2 and 3 booking before Person 4, then Person 4 would have no choice but to change pitches.
So, Ian, It is quite possible that someone booking in a different order to arrival would have to swap pitches. A computer will only be able to process the bookings in the order they are presented, without sending out letters and asking people to change pitches. There would still be enough pitches to accommodate everyone's stay.... just as it does now, but allocation on arrival restricts the members, in real time, to the pitches which are available on that day.
I do hope I have helped to clarify this situation. I am sorry if I have misunderstood what you are getting at Ian, but if so, perhaps you could explain in detail.
David
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That makes sense to me David. And given the precarious state of the club's IT systems I doubt it'd be able to cope with this complication. Let's think about priorities - allow choice of HS or grass certainly.Extend the cancellation period and have a financial
penalty for late cancellations etc. But since there appears to be little demand for choosing a specific pitch I wouldn't have thought it was a high priority at all.Where it works on commercial sites I'd guess that they get a large number of returning customers
(not exclusively, obviously) whereas the majority of CC sites don't. Again, the argument that becausevit works on commercial sites the CC should copy is entirely unconvincing IMHO!0 -
That makes sense to me David. And given the precarious state of the club's IT systems I doubt it'd be able to cope with this complication.
Thanks Moulesy. As you are the mathemetician, you have helped me put my mind at rest! .....and yes, I'm afraid I have to agree with the IT system as it appears at present.
David
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David,
In your example, in the first scenario that you show, the current booking system would tell P4 that there was no availability.......because P1, P2 and P3 have already booked and might take up pitches as you have shown when they arrive......so the system would say "no availability" just in case. It has to do this, to avoid the possibility of someone having to change pitch part through their holiday.
Pre-booking of pitches would be able to take account of actual pitch bookings and if they booked one of your scenarios that allows P4 to fit in, then the booking system would allow P4 to book......resulting in more satisfied customers and more income for the Club.
So, pre-booking in your example would give P4 a possibility of a booking, whereas the current system would deny him......just in case.
Moulesy......I'm interested in your comment that "there is no interest" in pre-booking pitches......could you perhaps publish your survey results and parameters, so that we can decide whether that is really the case?
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Regarding the Club's IT system......I tend to be optimistic and hope that they will see commercial reality and sort themselves out at some point. To simply accept that a multi-million pound business has no intention of ever making an attempt at improving
and resolving its problems is just too depressing.Do others simply accept that they will never get a grip?
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David,
In your example, in the first scenario that you show, the current booking system would tell P4 that there was no availability.......because P1, P2 and P3 have already booked and might take up pitches as you have shown when they arrive......so the system
would say "no availability" just in case. It has to do this, to avoid the possibility of someone having to change pitch part through their holiday.Pre-booking of pitches would be able to take account of actual pitch bookings and if they booked one of your scenarios that allows P4 to fit in, then the booking system would allow P4 to book......resulting in more satisfied customers and more income for
the Club.So, pre-booking in your example would give P4 a possibility of a booking, whereas the current system would deny him......just in case.
Moulesy......I'm interested in your comment that "there is no interest" in pre-booking pitches......could you perhaps publish your survey results and parameters, so that we can decide whether that is really the case?
Oh Ian, as someone who has frequently in the past claimed to speak for the (vast) majority of members you really shouldn't be asking me that now should you? What I said was that there "appears to be little demand" for choosing a specific pitch and I think
the evidence of this thread backs that up, limited as it is. More to the point, Ian, I asked you earlier on, ifvthe club did nothing else about pricing but allowed you to choose a specific pitch (for a premium) would that in itself make you more likely to
use CC sites? You seem to have become enamoured by commercial sites likely so it would be good to know if this change would bring you back to CC sites.
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Ian, you are taking this far too personally I fear. Read what I said again - "there appears to be little demand"! I never claimed to be speaking for anyone else now, did I? Neither you nor I know what members in general
feel. You asked a question but appear not to like an answer that disagrees with your view!How about answering the question I asked you?
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Well, that "wisecrack" does you little credit Ian, if you don't mind me saying so! Just read back through this thread you started yourself. Where is the demand for this particular change? There are other priorities (HS/grass etc).
Now, how about you - would it make you more likely to come back to CC sites if the club adopted your proposal ( but did nothing else about pricing or pitch selection)?
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David,
In your example, in the first scenario that you show, the current booking system would tell P4 that there was no availability.......because P1, P2 and P3 have already booked and might take up pitches as you have shown when they arrive......so the system would say "no availability" just in case. It has to do this, to avoid the possibility of someone having to change pitch part through their holiday.
Pre-booking of pitches would be able to take account of actual pitch bookings and if they booked one of your scenarios that allows P4 to fit in, then the booking system would allow P4 to book......resulting in more satisfied customers and more income for the Club.
So, pre-booking in your example would give P4 a possibility of a booking, whereas the current system would deny him......just in case.
Moulesy......I'm interested in your comment that "there is no interest" in pre-booking pitches......could you perhaps publish your survey results and parameters, so that we can decide whether that is really the case?
I cannot agree with that. That is not how it works.
If there are say 50 pitches on a site then 50 units can be acommodated every night if no pre-booking of specific pitches is permitted.
Once you are "in possession" of a pitch you do not move pitches unless you want to, the next outfit to arrive just has to use whatever pitch/pitches is/are available, it could be that they get no choice.
On the other hand, if you allow specific pitches to be booked, to get full occupancy there are 4 possible choices..........
People either need to be willing to only stay on the site for the length of time the pitch they want is showing as available.
Or they need to be willing to move pitch to be able to stay longer.
Or the site operator has to reserve the right to allocate them a different pitch on arrival. (which negates pre-booking)
Or the site has to operate fixed (e.g. 7 day) booking periods.
Even an "all singing and dancing" IT system would make no difference.
David's example is correct.
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David,
In your example, in the first scenario that you show, the current booking system would tell P4 that there was no availability.......because P1, P2 and P3 have already booked and might take up pitches as you have shown when they arrive......so the system
would say "no availability" just in case. It has to do this, to avoid the possibility of someone having to change pitch part through their holiday.Pre-booking of pitches would be able to take account of actual pitch bookings and if they booked one of your scenarios that allows P4 to fit in, then the booking system would allow P4 to book......resulting in more satisfied customers and more income for
the Club.So, pre-booking in your example would give P4 a possibility of a booking, whereas the current system would deny him......just in case.
Ian,
You have this the wrong way around. My first example was with people booking specific pitches, and as you rightly point out, Person 4 is either not given the option to book, or would have to move pitches.
As I tried to explain, the second example, where person 4 would be able to book, is the current situation where folk choose pitches on arrival. In this case person 4 would be happily accommodated.
The present system of choosing a pitch when you arrive would therfore give much more flexibility.
I hope this is clearer now.
David
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