Driving licence 3.5t limit - gov't petition for increase of cat B to 4.2t - Bump
>This petition< requires less that 400 signatures to hit 10,000, the level at which th Government is oblige to comment on. If you support this viewpoint then please sign so we can hear what the Government has to say. The original post has unfortunately got buried and won't come to the top.
peedee
Comments
-
A bit late in the day but I have signed even though I never be able to take advantage of this sensible suggestion.
David
0 -
My objection remains. I see no reason why motorhome drivers should have preferential treatment over and above drivers of other larger vehicles.
4 -
ET
But are drivers of other vehicles asking for the same increase, I've not seen anything? All that is really being asked is that motorhomes are able to combine the max vehicle weight with what they are allowed to tow on a standard licence. I think I would take some convicing that a motorhome with a max weight of 4250kgs is more dangerous than a 3500kgs motorhome towing a trailer weighing up to 750kgs? If other groups of motorists feel that vehicle weights need to be improved then it is up to them to campaign for that. That shouldn'd distract from this petition?
David
0 -
I think I would take some convicing that a motorhome with a max weight of 4250kgs is more dangerous than a 3500kgs motorhome towing a trailer weighing up to 750kgs?
Of course not, a motorhome isn't dangerous in itself but you're missing out one very important factor - the human interface, also known as the driver.
As I posted upthread somewhere, at the moment a brand new driver, (perhaps 17 years old yes unlikely but possible), having passed their test today at any age with hardly any driving experience is limited to 3500 Kgs, now under this very silly, or not well thought out, perhaps selfish, petition (in my view of course ) can tomorrow, or even the same day of their test buy and drive up to 4250 Kgs. Does that sound sensible? And of course it's not just about weight, weight in a motorhome will probably be linked to length and number of passengers or beds. I've just done some rough googling. A 3500 Kgs motor is around 5 to 7m while over 4250 Kgs can be over 8m. That might be fine if you have worked your way up from one to another but not straight away like this petition would allow?
The petition almost certainly won't get to 100,000 where this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament, and even it if did it will considered for less than five minutes, if that, I would think, and while it has a good chance of getting to 10,000 the response I would guess will be along the lines that the government has just given its answers on the latest changes published 7th January 2026 and no changes to the licenses weight like this are planned in it.
By the way 10,000 signatures is under 4% of all motorhomes/campervans in the UK. Make of that what you will as to how representative or supported it is by all those that have motorhomes.
0 -
@Cornersteady Would your theory of driver capability not equally apply to a 50 year old driver who has not driven anything larger than a Kia Picanto but perfectly leagally purchased a large motorhome even if it was 3500kgs? The difference between a 3500kgs and 4250kgs would probably go unnoticed. If a youngster who had recently passed their test I suspect would be more inclined towards a fast sports car, a motorhome probably unlikey? But of the two statistically we know which has more accidents? Also don't forget that not every kilo of payload needs to be used so the total weight could be anywhere between 3500 and 4250 kilos. I think you have mentioned that in the past you have driven mini buses? I don't know if the number of passengers varied but if they did, did you notice the difference? The only difference I noticed when I used to take my motorhome in for its annual service, which had been emptied of contents and nothing in the water tanks was that it bounced around a bit more on uneven roads. It always felt firmer to drive when fully loaded.
David
2 -
@Cornersteady Re the younger driver, the Government is currently consulting on what restrictions to impose on new drivers in the first few years (probably the first two) e.g. weight restrictions and number of passengers they will be allowed to carry. In the not too distant future I do not see a scenario like you describe happening even for new older drivers, especially if the B licence is increased to 4.25 tons for all types of vehicle.
Any increase in motorhome weights, is not always because of size, but in providing better build quality and payloads, both resulting in improved safety and with a less likelihood of being overloaded.
peedee
1 -
"the younger driver…"
I Think you've not read my post carefully enough there @peedee I said it's unlikely that about a younger driver but talked more about experience.
While weight and length is "not always" linked you will find the correlation coefficient is very strong indeed, last time I calculated it it was 0.88 or 88%
However it's all academic as there are no changes planned to weighs for B licenses. The petition won't get anywhere beyond a response near to the I suggest above and it's not at all supported by MH users I would say?
0 -
David you may have missed my point that it is not about weight itself but length and number of beds or passengers. Weight may be one thing but driving an 8+ m MH is totally different matter to driving a 6m one?
0 -
@Cornersteady The whole point about this petition is really about providing motorhomes with decent payload, not necessarily making motorhomes bigger. My first motorhome was 7.5 metres long with a payload of 550kgs. Depending of your style of touring, ours was long distance continetal travelling in the main, it is a struggle to keep to that payload especially if going on a longer holiday and I would suggest almost impossible if you have a couple of kids. Now it was perfectly possible for me to have up rated the maximum weight which I understand is a fairly simple procedure but as I had relinquished my full driving licence at 70 I couldn't have done that. You can have, what seems like a large motorhome that weighs in at or under 3500kgs so I am not convinced that actual demensions make much difference? My second motorhome was about a metre shorter and had a useful payload of 750kgs but nowhere near as comfortable as the first one.
David
0 -
@DavidKlyne I would disagree as to the point of the petition. It clearly states on the gov website the aims of the petition that it is to:
Allow license holders to drive motorhomes up to 4250kg on UK Category B LicenseWe want the UK to allow UK license holders to drive motorhomes up to 4250kg on UK Category B Licenses, in line with proposed changes from the EU.
That is an automatic increase from 3500 Kg to 4250Kg for those with a cat B license and there is nothing there to with making motorhomes bigger. I'm not sure where that came from really. It appears to be more wanting parity with the EU?
If someone needs more payload for whatever reason, children, whatever… then on the other thread it was clearly stated that wasn't really a problem or as you state, do it that way rather than, in my view, risk safety. This safety aspect can be discussed here but at the end of the day the government has decided that there are no plans to change the current weight limits on B licenses and so it's a moot point, also it would appear that it doesn't even have the support the vast majority of the owners of MH/campervans?
0 -
@Cornersteady I am all for rules being based on evidence although that is not always the case sadly. I suspect what most motorhomers want is some flexibility which would enable the to buy the right vehicle for them. I am not sure I have seen any of these petitions actually change things. Maybe its a question of numbers and so far the number of signitures are hardly encouraging. As I have said that even if this change came about it would be of no advantage to me personally but I do understand why it would be a useful change.
David
0 -
This safety aspect can be discussed here but at the end of the day the government has decided that there are no plans to change the current weight limits on B licenses
But the Government has already approved the increase on the B licence to 4.25 tons for electric vehicles. In doing so, it has recognised there is not a safety issue or any need for further training for a B licence holder. There is therefore no impediment as to why this cannot be extended to cover ICE vehicles. The rest of Europe has already agreed to this and it is difficult to imagine the UK will not follow suit.
peedee
0 -
No. The increase was done to allow trade vehicles and for example delivery van like those used in Amazon and Dpd to use electric vehicles. Electric vehicles would be better suited for these stop start shorter journey times and 'greener' as I'm sure you will understand.
However these electric vans would use heavy electric batteries and these would eat into the payload of these vans whether used by trade and for delivery. To offset these heavier weights the increase was approved. I did explain this in the other thread, perhaps you missed it?
So really there was no explicit recognition as to safety as you speculate. In fact I could say as the government has NOT done the same for ICE vehicles and MHs perhaps they do see safety concerns? I am speculating but if you can so can I?
And why? Well as I see it, and I have a vast Dpd depot with a mile of my home opposite an Aldi where we shop and I notice the electric vans. The change was made I think because the vans are still the same length just heavier because of the electric batteries, while MHs tend to use heavier payloads from 3500 to 4200 Kgs to be longer, and that is a mathematically proven 'fact', and I can prove it again if you wish as well as being easily roughly proven by a simple google search as I did upthread.
There are to me safety concerns in giving an inexperienced driver an 8+ m MH. If this petition said have an upgrade after 5 years of owning/driving a 3500 Kg MH then maybe but not straight away.
As I said:
This safety aspect can be discussed here but at the end of the day the government has decided that there are no plans to change the current weight limits on B licenses0 -
No. The increase was done to allow trade vehicles and for example delivery van like those used in Amazon and Dpd to use electric vehicles. Electric vehicles would be better suited for these stop start shorter journey times and 'greener' as I'm sure you will understand.
The Fact is the Government are allowing 4.25ton to be driven on a B licence, that is inescapable what ever their reasoning and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever it can not apply to ICE vehicles.
peedee
1 -
No reason according to you @peedee but not according to the government or they would have done it? I assume they see safety or other concerns or, quite simply, they would have taken your approach and would have done it?
…what ever their reasoning…
The reasons why the government allowed electric vans to be driven up to 4250Kg is pretty clear if you read this:
Zero emmsions vans.regulatory flebibility
And do a simple google search:
Why the 4.25-Tonne Limit Was Approved
The primary reason for increasing the weight limit from 3.5 tonnes to 4.25 tonnes is toaccount for the additional weight of batteries in electric vehicles.
GOV.UKPayload Parity:Electric vans are heavier than their diesel counterparts. Without this change, the heavy battery would reduce the available payload capacity, making electric vans less practical for businesses.Encouraging ZEV Uptake:The government aims to support the transition to Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEVs) by removing the need for drivers to acquire a more expensive, specialized HGV (C or C1) licence.
0 -
Payload Parity:Electric vans are heavier than their diesel counterparts. Without this change, the heavy battery would reduce the available payload capacity, making electric vans less practical for businesses.
That makes sense as, if vans had to reduce their carrying capacity, the price of carriage and thus the goods carried would increase. That would eventually reflect in inflation which the Govt does not want.
1 -
@Cornersteady from the quote above detailing why the Government has changed the rules. Now whilst I can see that as a pragmatic decision, nowhere can I see any concerns about safety which is something that seems to be one of your concerns? I have to take it as an assumption on my part that the Government did review that but dismissed it as a concern? Alternatively they may have considered it but decided that it wasn't a sufficient concern to warrant them offering any further guidelines? One of your other concerns was that inexperienced driver would go out an buy motorhomes larger than if the 3500kgs rule was kept. I suppose none of us know that would be the case but it is a possibility. However in the same way that caravanners don't all go out and buy 8foot wide twin axle caravans then it won't probable mean that all new motorhomers will go out and buy the biggest motohome they can, assuming they could afford to do so. I suspect the initial cost is quite a limiting factor for most? Some might be tempted and will probable live to regret it. The decision on what motorhome to buy has many facets, size and weight being only two.
David
0 -
My main point is that while in these trade vans extra weight was needed for these batteries to carry the same payload as they did in ICE 'mode' while extra length was not needed, while in MHs extra length usually comes at the expense of extra weight. A 6m trade van is probably as safe to drive if it's 3500 or 4000 Kg? Allowing for stopping distances perhaps. While a 5-6m MH handles differently to an 8 - 9 MH I would think? And again, hopefully for the last time, that is my point. weight in a MH is directly proportional to length. Again, if the government though it was all safe, they would have allowed all ICE weights changed, they have not, they know something that we do not. Perhaps it is safety perhaps not. We can discuss all we want but there it is.
Those two quotes were AI google generated from the rather long document that I gave a link for, just to give a favour to PD as the government's reason which PD didb't appear to know
0 -
@Cornersteady I am not sure your assumption that a longer motorhome is more difficult to handle, actually stands up to scrutiny. OK there is something of a learning curve when you first get a motorhome but that equally applies most vehicles and certainly if you decide on a larger caravan. Firstly motorhomes of 8 to 9 metres long are certainly available but the choice is reasonably small. 6 to 7.5 metres are much more common. I mentioned that I had owned two motorhomes over a 11 year period, one 7.5 metres long and the other 6.6metres long. I am not sure I could say the longer one was anymore demanding to drive than the shorter one. Really where the main diference is comes from is when you need to manoeuvre the vehicle in tighter spaces and obviously you have to make greater allowances when say turning left. But on the open road very little difference. I can only relate to you my own experience and perhaps it would be useful other motorhomers relate their own experiences to give you a bigger picture?
David
1 -
Interesting short video from Motorhome Matt
David
1 -
An extra unspecified length making turning, pulling out, parking, larger turning circles, wheels some distance behind the driver? All that not more difficult? I find that find to believe personally, especially for an inexperienced driver.
All that extra weight as well, extra acceleration which isn't that unsafe perhaps but all that extra momentum will mean extra unexpected braking and longer stopping distances which could catch inexperienced drivers out. Again all that not more more difficult to handle?
I'm sorry I just do not agree.
As I keep repeating this, we can happily go over this over and over but the weight changes are not going to happen for reasons unknown. Personally I think the government are erring on the side of safety, others think otherwise but it won't make any difference until such time as the government change their minds.
0 -
I'm confused? This makes out that it's up to Kier S to simply give a Trump style executive order and it's done overnight? To be passed into law doesn't have to go through a few other stages or am I missing something here? Fully prepared to be educated on this?
0 -
@Cornersteady I wasn't sure why he went down that rabbit hole either. What he should have probably have said was the Kier Starmer Government, or just the Government, which to me would have made more sense? As I understand it Motorhome Matt is in the trade as well as being a blogger and possibly has a close relationship with UK manufacturers. What I found interesting in his comments was that the feeling amongst those manufacturers was that the change would go through. I am in no position to know whether that is just wishful thinking or whether that comes from direct discussions with Government. We will have to wait and see?
David
0
