Empty sites
Comments
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Oh my goodness!😆
Isn’t electricity metered at Totnes so you do indeed pay for what you use?
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@Tridenteight Well firstly the good news is you don't have to use club sites if you think it's unfair to you? Find sites that having metering? Even the club has some now, oh like Totnes actually. Were you using mainly gas?
But…the reality is that no one is subsidising anyone. The club sets the price all one has to do is accept or not. Personally I never worry about the next door unit using more than me, or less than me I just get on with my holiday.
As for emptying sites, I've noticed sites being rather fuller than last year.
As for all the parking correctly, mopping showers, reading site inf…, coming from the larger vans - how do you know all this?
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From my perspective I would say count your blessings that you can still enjoy the hobby.It looks as if the Club eventually intends that all sites have metered electricity so eventually there will be a level playing field.
David
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They appear to have got cold feet on this one David and opted for the choice of not having any electric.
@Tridenteight if there is no control on electricity use, can you really blame people for using as much as they want, regardless of size of outfit?
peedee
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I can sort of empathise with the OP, as we too only have a small outfit, low on internal tech as well, and we don’t use a lot of electricity generally. (No heating on overnight, too stifling, happy to put a jumper on in the day if needed, etc…) We don’t use anything like the Club Site nights as we used to do. We mix our sites up, and often do no hook ups for odd days, even in Winter. So in general, we do go elsewhere. The choice is seek out alternatives that give smaller outfits a better vfm, or fill your boots if you do stay on a Club Site. Not sure if it’s the same now, but at one time Forestry Commission Sites gave folks the choice on size of pitch/on pitch extras, with appropriate pricing. So you could choose from 3 bands of price according to what you wanted/needed.
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Steamer Quay pitches are all serviced H/S pitches with metered electricity. Therefore, in terms of power usage, a user only pays for what he/she uses. Surely if anyone objects to paying the pitch price, they’d choose a different site like nearby Stover?🤷🏻♂️
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I am not sure if I can understand what the statement means about the 6kw space/water heaters using £7.00 per day,how does he know this? As for why the sites are emptying,certainly this season I have not had any indication this is an issue.
As for paying the pitch price,there are alternatives out there,many with metered electricity now.
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I'm also confused about the 6Kw heaters too. I don't think any space/water heater can have 6Kw all on electricity, my max is 2Kw, well, 1.8Kw. If I want more I have to use the gas as well.
Are there now bigger electric units? I've heard of 3Kw but do bigger one exists.
Also of course the limit on most club sites is 16 Amp so where does 6Kw come from?
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Someone hit me with the opposite logic on a recent trip away - why should they pay for sites with all the facilities when they don’t use them because they have them in their caravan? I pointed out that I felt that I got better value for money with my older, cheaper caravan, because I actually was using all the site facilities because my caravan doesn’t have them.
The argument for metered electrics is slowly coming to a head, as the CAMC announced that they’re going to trial metered electrics on some selected sites. Personally, I can’t be bothered with the hassle, we’ll probably continue to run largely off-grid. We stayed at a CL where you had to put coins in the meter, and you best believe ours ran out in December at about 2am and the heating went off! If it’s a pre-paid card then you’re always going to be shelling out for more than you use. And if it’s worked out at the end of your stay, you have the added admin of revisiting the site office to pay for your electric on departure day. That said, I think it’s a good initiative for encouraging people to be more responsible with their electric usage. I shudder whenever I see someone attempting to heat their awning space with an electric heater, it’s so incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment.0 -
”I shudder whenever I see someone attempting to heat their awning space with an electric heater, it’s so incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment.”
I can’t disagree on the environmental aspect although it does depend on other factors but how can it be wasteful if they’re paying for the electricity, either by meter or all inclusive, and are using it in a way that suits them?
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So that certainly wasn’t wasteful 👍🏻
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I shudder whenever I see someone attempting to heat their awning space with an electric heater, it’s so incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment.
I also shudder when I see people towing with older polluting cars, it’s so incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment, for example a 1966 Triumph 2000 Mk1 estate.
Also I shudder when people tow with cars that only manage 12-15 mpg, for example a Rover P5b, again so incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment.
If one is concerned about what is so incredibly wasteful and what is bad for the environment, as you appear to be, then perhaps towing with a more modern car would help to alleviate those concerns? Or are they just aimed at those who use awning heaters? One use is acceptable, or can be justified as a slightly bonkers trip while another makes you shudder?
I manage about 35 mpg towing, I don't know if that's good or bad and really I do not worry about it one bit. I want to tow and that is it.
Just some simple searching to add substance and a reasoned argument.
Older cars from the 1960s are significantly more polluting than modern vehicles, with some studies estimating they produce more than 100 times the local air pollution per mile
This dramatic difference is due to the absence of modern emissions-control technology, less efficient engine designs, and the use of leaded gasoline
Pollutant
1960s Cars
Modern Cars
Nitrogen Oxides (NOx)
36 to 145 times higher, contributing to smog and acid rain.
Drastically reduced through catalytic converters.
Carbon Monoxide (CO)
54 to 280 times higher, as a result of incomplete fuel combustion.
Minimized by computer-controlled fuel injection and catalytic converters.
Hydrocarbons (HC)
130 times higher, emitted as unburned fuel vapor.
Reduced by improved combustion and evaporative emissions controls.
Lead
Significant amounts were emitted from gasoline additives used as an octane booster.
Eliminated by the phase-out of leaded fuel in the 1970s and 1980s.
Particulate Matter (PM)
Larger amounts of fine soot were emitted, particularly from diesel engines.
Reduced by diesel particulate filters (DPFs) and other engine technologies
So I do wonder who is being so incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment. Those using awning heaters or those doing, say, 975 mile trips in 11 days with such nasty pollutants being pumped out into the environment? Emotive words used on purpose btw.
You see I don't have a view one way or the other and I'm not criticising those that do use these cars (I'm one) or tow using them for a slightly bonkers trip, but then I don't criticise or judge anyone for how they use their outfit on site either like using an awning heater.
I suppose my point is that I've always noticed a sense of 'elasticity' around 'green' issues. It's Ok for one person to use their outfits one way but they then make comments about others using their outfit another, in what could be thought of as equally incredibly wasteful and bad for the environment. Perhaps ban both awning heaters and older polluting cars?
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I’m all for electricity being metered. We are normally off grid but a recent stay at a CL in weather that wasn’t going to produce much solar we decided to hook up to the metered electricity. We use gas for hot water in the morning as it works better than the electricity. Otherwise electric kettle, Remoska, charging batteries. 4 nights, we used 4 units at 27 p a unit. Meter read when we arrived and we read meter on departure and put money and payment slip in honesty box. I appreciate the Club cannot do the later, but it doesn’t have to be difficult (unless you are the CAMC!)
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The argument for metered electrics is slowly coming to a head, as the CAMC announced that they’re going to trial metered electrics on some selected sites.
@CameronBurns are you aware the C&mC starting trialing meters over 2 years ago and still haven't got round to doing much else!
peedee
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I recall in an interview, the DG(?) or someone high up in the club stated that metering won't be introduced till paying (paraphrasing) is as easy as swiping your bank card. The trail is ongoing. I'm sure I read somewhere the ease of payment feedback was being monitored by the club and there certainly has been negative posts about it on CT. Then there's the cost of installation of meters, (was £1m+) mentioned last time someone did the calculations and where will that money come from as it can't be recouped by having meters?
There is also the issue that the reduction is pitch fee won't really be that much lower. Again someone did post that in the trail they had spent more than if they had EHU. At the moment it's £1.70 not to have EHU.
People mention using gas, but isn't that worse for the environment?
It's often been posted that having metering will, along the lines of, encouraging people to be more responsible with their electric usage. Why? It would not me for me.
I have posted that I don't do this at home - watch the meters or cut down, and it wouldn't happen on holiday either. I'm not bothered if metering comes or goes I'll holiday in the same way. At home I use whatever I need to do what I want or need to keep very warm and that would continue on site.
In the (dim and distant) past holiday homes were metered for energy use but now I can't find one that does in the major companies. Hotels, B&Bs, and air B&Bs don't so what is the issue with caravan sites? Does anyone booking a holiday let worry about if the previous or next guest is going to use more than them? All inclusive holidays and restaurants exist and no one worries that others are drinking or eating more? All one does is see the price and decide if it's acceptable or not?
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But if it’s metered and the money collected from campers, it matters not if bills go down or up because the CL owner will have collected the money from his customers and it won’t cost him, the owner, anything.
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Site owners can’t make any profit on electricity if they install meters. - they are only allowed to pass it on to customers at cost price.
But without meters they can decide on a bare pitch price and add on as much profit as they wish to their electricity costs - and sell a combined package of pitch + EHU.
Site owners know this can add to their profit and are going slow on installing meters.2 -
@Hja the bill might be reduced but they have the money already, either by metering or an all inclusive cost. Unless they are not very good at running their CL in these matters.
Also what probably happens is that people start to use gas more for their space and water heating, the cost for the camper is just shifted more to buying gas.
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@eurortraveller yes, I've said the same thing before, except as much profit as they think the market will stand. hence why the reduced pitch fee with metering won't/isn't as much as people think.
There's also the cost of energy that is shared for everyone and always there, for example heating/lighting/water heating (even in summer) of any facility block and such things like site lights, cost of charging those tractors and power tools.
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The cost of electric has just gone up again, expect pitch prices to rise again. The C&CC have tried very hard to hold its prices by cutting services. Nevertheless it has made a loss over the last two years with the cost of electricity hitting them hard. The Clubs will never be able to control this without meters.
peedee
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Maybe I’m wrong but I thought it was domestic/household tariffs that went up🤔
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The club's accounts have been published for 2024 I can't see any loss for this club @peedee as it mentioned a healthy (to me) surplus, but I'm no expert perhaps you could look at them and I'll stand to be corrected? Also purchased electricity down from 2023.
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Is a surplus of £4.3 million holding its head above water? The surplus in 2023 was £4.4 m
Especially considering that they have spent double in 2024 as opposed to 2023, (£27.7 million, £13m in 2023) on its sites network and infrastructure, including buying Lickpenny I assume?
Apologies if I've read those figures wrong.
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I think businesses have very different tariffs to us ordinary folk and, no, they aren’t capped.
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