Rosedale Abbey site closed
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@Wildwood The interest in motorhomes has gather momentum, certainly in the last five to ten years. This probably persuades some caravanners that owning and using a motorhome would be easier than towing a caravan as was the situation with ourselves. You are probably right that some do get buyers remorse as the reality proves not to be quite so convenient especially if people remain in caravan mode? People who caravan tend to start the hobby much earlier as a means of family holidays and then continue into retirement. What I suspect you don't get so much is people buying a caravan when they retire and yet this is often the starting point for new motorhomer owners. Covid was also a catalyst for many people and it was interesting watching the buying and selling groups on Facebook how many of those motorhomes came up for sale at 2 and 3 years old with seemingly people deciding to explore other holiday options. It seems the "market" is still suffering from the covid bubble.
David
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I completely agree Frank. As the motorhome market has grown so has the demise of the remoter, often no facility, site. The evidence is clear. I have enjoyed remoter sites - Rosedale, Bromyard, High Onn, but I only ever stayed on those for two or three nights. My preference was for site near a bus stop or a train or close to, or within, a town or City - Warwick, York, Abbey Wood, Forfar, Melrose, Edinburgh, White Water (perhaps my favourite) and others at which, in my case, I would mostly stay for around a week or even more. Of course, my own preference is anecdotal, but there's no getting away from the fact that the disadvantage of motorhomes is not having separate, flexible transport. I've only ever had motorhomes and in the early days I did lots and lots of cycling, but as I got older I started to find this a challenge and my modus operandi changed. I think that applies to many.
Another observation I have made countless times, is how few motorhomes, and even camper vans, actually did go off site for the day. I'd make a bet that it is rarely more than about ten percent - if even that - and most of them will be the smaller vans. Instead, most users will stay for two or three nights and then move on and maybe pay visits to tourist attractions whilst moving between sites. I can hardly ever recall seeing the larger motorhome go off site during the day in all my years.I totally agree with your other post that as the motorhome market grows so more sites of a certain type will have an increasing problem to remain economic.
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"there's no getting away from the fact that the disadvantage of motorhomes is not having separate, flexible transport."
No, sorry, the only "fact" there is that the person has a MH too big for their intended use (and I speak from experience). Buy one the size you can take out and about, if that is your envisaged use, and there is no disadvantage but buy a whacking great coachbuilt and expect to visit towns or travel narrow country lanes with it and you’ll end up creating your own disadvantage.
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@Graydjames I sort of agree with most of your post, except that the staying on a Club Site with a MH does tend to be more of a Club thing. Away from Club Sites, people with all shapes and sizes of campers and MHs do go out for the day, and tour to other sites, we know and see it happening because it’s what we do, and when we move on, or go out for the day, you often see your pitch neighbour parked up doing the same, or they might have moved on as well. Lots of folks share details of good stopovers, easy places to visit. There are Club Sites we have used that make sense just to pitch up and stay, YRP being the perfect example.
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I have been on campsites where I have seen quite large motorhomes leave the site on a regular basis. However that was never our MO, we much preferred sites with the option of either walking or riding (public transport) from the site and we chose our sites accordingly. If you want to use your motorhome like a car then I suppose one option is to go small but to me that sacrifices too much comfort, obviously depending on how much time you spend in the van. Life is all about personal choice. We started with a 7.5 metre motorhome which had a separate living/sleeping areas. We down sized to a smaller van where you had to convert day time to night time and after a while sort of regretted not having the space. It might be an age thing where creature comforts are higher up the list. So in a roundabout way back to the subject matter is that if there are a majority of motorhomes of the same view as mine (and who knows) its easy to see why some campsites are becoming less popular and closing. If insufficient members are willing to use some sites the inevitable will happen?
David
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There may be something in that. I did go to Strathclyde Park yesterday to check on our caravan though and caravans outnumbered motorhomes by 12 to one, but the numbers were too small to draw any firm conclusions.
Despite being only about ten miles from the city centre the nearest bus service is only a half hour service and you need to walk over a bridge way above the motorway that could be pretty nasty in Winter. Possibly not the best site n Winter unless you have a car with you.
Personally I think caravans are better for staying in in Winter, they ae simply easier to warm and more practical in many ways, on the other hand if the weather is bad they are harder to tow. You pays your money and take your choice.
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Im not privy to the stats on MH vs Caravan membership…you could well be correct given the rise in MH ownership but I do believe it is the location of a site (club or otherwise) which determines where MH users decide to 'pitch up' . No bus stop at the gate or an easy walk into town/etc deters many….Aside, re MH ownership I am more and more meeting MH owners who desperately want to change to a caravan but the depreciation/trade in value was prohibitive. Various reasons given but amongst them is the fact that recently town councils/and other institutions are beginning to ban MH's due to the vast numbers…
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Not sure about Caravans being easier to warm. The heat from the cab during the journey means MHs are quite warm when you arrive and the standard of insulation on modern vans means they are usually quite toasty. I used my MH in France about 10 years ago when it was -14°C and sat inside in a T shirt. Admittedly that was with Alde heating.
I use my current MH regularly when the temperatures are well below freezing and use a refillable gas system to power the Truma boiler. MHs are much easier to use on the continent in winter as you also have the option to use aires when most sites are closed.
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With regard to your words about motorhomers swapping to caravans, I wonder if it’s the coming down to earth post covid effect? For a while during the pandemic it was the 'in thing' to buy a MH and even now it seems every contestant on a TV quiz program wants to buy a campervan. People tend to have little idea what they’re buying into and many find out the hard way that MHs are not for them.
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Agree with you about warmth @JimE. MHs are at least as warm and cosy as caravans, even steel sided PVCs, and there’s also less need to go outside than with a caravan.
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I tend to agree. It’s also not helped by any programmes about Motorhomes focusing on the more glamorous side and rarely if ever emptying the cassette at the CDP 😂 or filling or emptying water, which can be taxing if using some of the remote places they show, where a bucket and watering can may be required, rather than hose and drive over. Although I quite liked the Paul Merton series, they tended to avoid those things and also mysteriously found a very convenient place to park their 7 metre Motorhome when visiting attractions.
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If someone has a “whacking great coachbuilt” it is palpably obvious that their intended use is not to visit towns or travel narrow country lanes in said vehicle. If, however, that is their purpose, then they have to go small. You’re stating the obvious. I was careful to use the term motorhomes, which, by and large, even compact ones, are not suitable for providing flexible travel. Campers, and some panel vans, are a different story. I stand absolutely square behind my original comment.
I made the choice to have more room and more comforts. In so doing, I knew that I would forego flexible travel. That was my choice. However, it doesn’t mean that the disadvantage of not having a vehicle in which you can go where you choose – and easily do off-site visits - is no longer valid. Of course it is valid. For 37 years, I have heard the same disparagement from caravanners – yes, very nice, but you haven’t got a car to come and go as you please.
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"You’re stating the obvious"
Sadly, it is not obvious to many people although it clearly is to you and I. Something is only a "disadvantage" if it does not fit into a person's ideal. If it is exactly what is wanted, as in your case, there is no disadvantage. Therefore, I too stand by my words.2 -
Folks really do need to do some proper research around motorhome ownership before buying. It never ceases to amaze me just how some folks can part with £80, 90, 100k and get things very badly wrong in terms of having to make some difficult compromises. Tends to be those very new to touring, but it does happen. It’s not just the outfit that needs research, but how and where you want to visit, and the possible sites/stopovers you use. That’s why I sometimes find it amusing when some say UK isn’t motorhome friendly. It is, if you choose your sites/stopovers well, and don’t go absolutely huge. The culture (and probably the understanding/welcome from some towns, cities, villages) isn’t as established as on the Continent, but it has got a whole lot better these past few years. If your prime touring choice is overseas, then a large outfit should be easier I am guessing.
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For those interested in one of the closed sites,Broomfield Farm,in East Hoathly this has already been kept as a touring site, under the new name of Starve Wood Park.
There are not many details on their web site,but I does say it has been purchased by a local couple.
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@Fozzie I wonder who they purchased it from? Not quite sure why but I thought it was one of the leased sites the Club had but perhaps I am wrong. As you say not many details on their website but it seems they will be running it as is with no facilities. We should wish them luck and it will be interesting to see if they can do better than the CMC. Perhaps having a leaner organisation running it might help.
David
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@Graydjames @Takethedogalong As the owner of a 7.4m 3.85T A Class, I agree with your comments about touring restrictions in the UK. I gave up on touring holidays in the UK many years ago and now just use pre-booked sites, CLs and THSs. Living within easy reach of LeShuttle, I would guess that over 80% of our MH tours are spent on the continent now.
Our auxilliary transport of choice is ebikes and by careful selection of locations near places of interest, we don't find the lack of transport a problem. We just move on to pastures new when we have explored the limited area we/our ebikes can cover.
Like @SteveL I think Paul Merton's rather romanticised presentation of motorhome holidays, whilst entertaining TV, must be responsible for many premature re-sales.
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@JimE we are ebike users as well, but for the exercise and adventure rather than necessity. We do take our MH out most days, but it is a lot smaller than yours at 5.5m. Hence why we tour around quite easily and have few problems getting/staying most places in UK. It was a deliberate choice that size, it’s comfy and has all we need inside, even for long breaks away, and if the weather is nice, outside is our choice anyway. We were campervan owners before we then went to tents, caravan’s and then back to a MH, so we knew what to expect, how we would cope on a variety of sites and getting around parking up in places.
TV gives a distorted view for many, but it is up to those buying to do the proper research though. Otherwise it’s like thinking Eastenders is real!🤣
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@DavidKlyne it does say on their web site that they have metered EHU so perhaps they can keep the pitch fees a bit lower than the club could and so attract more customers, including those that will stay off grid if the price is right.
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Have you looked in your draft file @KjellNN it may have disappear into there.
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As caravan owners, we are not adverse to remote sites, if they are in the area we want to visit, but we can see why they might not be popular with MH owners.
Less understandable is the aversion to non facility sites. Our first caravan (1972) had a portapotti and a WHB in a dedicated toilet area, a 3 way fridge, hob, oven and grill, but no hot water and only a foot pump. We used site facilities, which were at that time pretty basic. We had it till 1983, then returned to caravanning in 1998 when things had become much more luxurious.
Our 1998 caravan had HW, blown air heating, a good shower compartment etc, fridge, hob, oven and grill. We used site facilities infrequently.
Our current caravan (2008) has Alde heating, big fridge freezer, hob, oven, grill, microwave, a spacious shower room with a very large shower compartment, fixed bed……..everything we could ever want, we do not need, and rarely use, site facilities. So much easier for us to use our on board facilities, especially in bad weather.
What we do like are serviced pitches, and hard standings are essential as far as we are concerned.
Our ideal site these days is a non facility one, usually a CL, with serviced hardstandings. In our opinion the Club is missing an opportunity by not upgrading its non facility sites to have far more serviced pitches.
We do not rule out non facility Club sites, or CLs , but serviced pitches are great when you are 82!
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"Our ideal site these days is a non facility one, usually a CL, with serviced hardstandings. In our opinion the Club is missing an opportunity by not upgrading its non facility sites to have far more serviced pitches.
We do not rule out non facility Club sites, or CLs , but serviced pitches are great when you are 82!"
Totally agree @KjellNN - they're also great when you're 74!!
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I think the non facility sites do not have them because of supply problems rather than anything else. We have used several and they have ended to be fairly remote and probably have no mains water access. Despite this most have tended to be well used which may mean the location of the ones that have shut is more the problem. I have not seen anything from the club to suggest they have investigated why these sites were under used which makes we wonder if they just said they were not profitable and closed them, without any further investigation.
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I think I may have mentioned this before but the Club does have no facility sites with serviced pitches. Hebden Bridge is one and Stamford (before it closed) was another. Whether its worth the Club investing in serviced pitches on no facility sites might well depend on the ownership of the site and whether it is leased and how long the lease is? The difficulties mentioned by Wildwood might also come into play as to whether the investment is worthwhile. There seems to be general agreement that full facility sites with serviced pitches and updated toilet blocks is what most members seem to want and the non facility sites now seem to be a bit niche? So unless they can pay for themselves no doubt they will gradually disappear?
David
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We are more than happy with the standard non facility sites, be they club or 5 van ones, although we do like Hardstanding pitches especially in the winter months. I will link up to the service points if available, but won't go out of my way to seek them out particularly. Although in my 80yr I have no problem with using an aquaroll for our water or emptying a wastemaster. We are really upset by the loss of so many of the club's non-facility sites which we used on as regular basis.
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