The Badgers, the Farmers and Me.
Brian May: The Badgers, the Farmers and Me.
What a fascinating and interesting programme. One which farmers and wildlife lovers should watch. The solution to Bovine TB it seems, lies not in mass culls of badgers but in a change in mindsets, false beliefs and a deeper understanding of the real transmission of the organism causing BTB in cattle. Science is providing the answers and it’s very good news for farmers, many and their families have had their lives devastated by this disease but it’s also good news for badgers. The appropriate action and possibilities outlined in this programme now needs to be spread far and wide across our countryside and a particular well done goes to the Welsh in this matter! Worth a watch on IPlayer.
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There is a programme to vaccinate badgers in this part of Cornwall but they can hardly find any. The badger cull has killed the rest. Some local farms still have TB in their cattle but some don’t. Why if there are no badgers?
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We watched it last night and I totally agree with you Mickysf, it was very interesting and appeared that some of the farmers problems come from, shall we say "bad hygiene", I am hoping this very informative programme will educate some people who are in a position to be able to do something about it and they act on it.
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A good question, dogs and cats, pigs, deer, pigs along with other mammals also can carry the disease. Makes me wonder, I know I shouldn’t, if a ‘scapegoat’, pardon the pun, was needed and badgers were an easier target being a wild non domesticated/farmed species. Seriously, I haven’t a clue but interesting non the less.
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The subject is both emotive and controversial but something has to change.
I think the acid test now is the growing number of farmers who, in the light of present research and trials, are coming round and changing their long held views on this subject. An increasing number are considering a new approach to bTB control and the eradication of the disease and the devastating consequences for many farmers who, it seems, are continually finding TB in their herds. Also, now knowing that when the disease is identified in individuals in the herd, which clearly is horrific for farmers, then to understand that a significant number of the rest of their cattle may remain as an unrecognised reservoir for the disease. It must be like an unseen ticking time bomb for them waiting for the next check. Sadly the fact that the disease remains unnoticed can mean a farm dreamed free can perpetuate the problem and possibly even inadvertently spread the disease to other beasts and even to new ‘pastures’.
Clearly there is some way to go to convince some but that is understandable and a work in progress. After all, don’t we all want the same thing and an end to the persecution of badgers if the culls are as ineffective as suggested.
As for badgers upsetting the natural balance of other species, what a nonsense. There numbers nationally are significantly down as they are in some of the worst affected bTB areas. Don’t forget, it’s not them, it’s us who have much to answer for. Hedgehogs and badgers numbers have been much higher and balanced in years before the culls. Same with foxes and deer etc.. Persecution and eradication clearly is not working with bTB. It calls for a radical rethink from humans it seems.
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Watched the programme yet?
The point I am making is that the imbalances of those species we see is primarily down to our interference, not the badgers, and that the form that interference has taken is currently misinformed and misdirected.
Also.
There is no evidence that badgers have significant impacts on bird populations and badger culling is not associated with increases in bird numbers. Hounsome : University of Aberdeen
Furthermore additional research suggests fox numbers are increased in badger culling areas. Our interference again.
We really do need that radical rethink based on proper science based, peer reviewed, research don’t we and not just keep on repeating the same mistakes based on narrow,incorrect and false information? The program highlights this.0 -
Earlier this year Cambridge University published their latest research on BCG vaccination of cattle - finding 89% reduction in infection and in cow to cow transmission.
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Thanks eurotraveller. A valuable piece of research!
“Professor James Wood, Alborada Professor of Equine and Farm Animal Science in the University of Cambridge’s Department of Veterinary Medicine, noted that despite TB being more prevalent in lower-income countries, the United Kingdom, Ireland and New Zealand also experience considerable economic pressures from the disease which continues to persist despite intensive and costly control programs.”We know what those ineffectual methods were! Vaccination along with improvements to farm hygiene could solve the problem.
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If as they say 230,000 have already been culled in these small areas it just shows how out of kilter the badger population is. No wonder all other wildlife is moving to extinction when these animals cause so much devastation. Blame the Badger huggers not farmers for the decrease in wildlife numbers.
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That’s over a decade, fish, but still a lot of badgers and cattle culled during this totally ineffective and very expensive period.‘As of 2024, the United Kingdom has culled 210,000 badgers at a cost of £58.8 million. In the same period, it culled 330,000 cattle. Bovine TB compensation paid to farmers costs the UK taxpayer around £150 million per annum.’
As far as numbers of badgers being out of kilter is concerned, no wonder if they actually are. The natural balance and ecosystems in which they live has been massively disrupted by the cull.
Interestingly badgers have an omnivorous diet mainly eating nuts, fruit, earthworms, slugs, rats, mice, rabbits, a few birds and their eggs but the majority of fauna eaten is in the form of carrion, they just clean up the ‘debris’ and there is no evidence as to a detrimental effect on birds and animals numbers in the environment where left alone.
Yes, those that mess with the balance cause much of the problem. Thankfully there is a better way which is now being advocated.
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A government announcement yesterday confirmed that the cull of badgers is to end - but not just yet. Slowly but surely it is being accepted that cow to cow transmission of TB is what is happening - and one day in the future they will developed a vaccine for cattle.
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We are good at control here, hence we have curlews, lapwings, buzzards and kites just to mention a few. Left to us without the red tape and have been so called celebrities we could be even better. Just remember it was the city toffs who blasted the grouse etc out of existence.What they did with the carcases ( pre freezers) does not bear thinking. Just like the present city folk who shoot pheasants. At least the left over carcases here feed the raptors now that farmers have to sanitise the fields and hills by paying to dispose of a dead sheep.Proper Country folk only then and now kill only for the pot.
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The curlews dont nest on the lowland fields but the open ffridd and mountain that are not mown. Sheep dont usually leave the fields after lambing until May to go back to the mountains so silage and grass cutting here is after June. Typical incorrect comment by the desk bound bureaucrats.. Going back to badgers, the huggers dont seem to have a problem with the huge domestic cow culling but rant against a badger. The usual selective nonsense from the single issue protestors.
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The science and my experience tells us that curlew were in living history a lowland breeding bird. In the fifties and sixties we had several breeding areas in the Ancholme Valley, can’t get much lower than that to sea level, in fact they nested all round Britain in similar environments. It was the changes in agricultural practices and human disturbance that have driven them away to now breeding primarily in much higher pastures.
Now as for cows, the chicks and fledglings can escape them but that tractor and mechanical mower changes the landscape dramatically in a matter of a minutes, harming or killing all that can’t escape in their path. The cows however also helped, they don’t remove all the flora in a fashion which goes from lots of cover to essentially none across the whole field in one fell swoop. Also cows help by slowly and randomly churning the ground and disturbing invertebrates, food for birds etc, as they go, depositing organic waste matter for insects and other invertebrates to ‘use’ as they go. That’s why nature reserves and rewilding projects are using cattle. I do hope this helps understanding.0 -
I really don’t hold much store by those that some label as ‘huggers’. This is a deliberately derogatory term aimed at making misleading generalisations and to hide the true science. Personally I’ve never met a ‘hugger’ (they must be significantly few in number and impotent I’d think) but should they exist they are probably equally to blame as those at the other end of the debate’s spectrum for not addressing this awful disease and the despair and distress it brings for all concerned. To suggest that the vast majority of us wildlife enthusiasts have no respect for the cattle culled is totally wrong and does not help in anyway at all. I’m absolutely sure that all interested in nature have nothing but concern for the cattle culled. There is and was no need for such culling of both cattle and badgers in such huge numbers. The alternative methods could have come sooner but have been held back to the detriment of all interested parties and the animals.
Now here is a real shocker, sheep predate ground nesting birds eating eggs and chicks in some significant number, probably more than is currently documented.
Low Land Curlew1 -
As a practicing and owner of a farm I have first hand knowledge of how we use it. In all my years (80) curlews here were ffridd and upland birds,, living where mechanical farming did not take place. Whilst I have no knowledge of sheep eating birds I am very sceptical as they are herbivores. But there you go you have a laugh every day.
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Yes it was a surprise to me too, but it does happen. Here is the photographic evidence but there is more are much anecdotal accounts of several herbivores doing the same. One suggestion is the need for certain dietary requirements.
Herei don’t find it funny though just part of nature.
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You may find this interesting, fish as I know you are interested in aviation. The lowland breeding curlew were pretty much driven from their habitats in Lincolnshire with the change in farming from wool growing to arable. In the main the birds latterly then found sanctuary on the many bomber aerodromes which sprang up around us during WW2. Since the demise of the airfields we have lost many of our breeding curlew as this land was turned arable during 1960s. Now we have only a handful of lowland breeding curlew left.
On that other note-This video (Here) is not for the faint hearted but is just one example out there to be found of sheep disturbance and sheep egg eating of ground nesting birds, on this occasion a curlew. Unfortunately there are several other documented and researched instances over resent decades of this happening, including predation of arctic terns, another of our species unfortunately announced today on red list.0 -
It certainly is, Fish but similar behaviours have been witnessed else where in the world. The disturbance factor is well documented but the eating of eggs by sheep is not unheard of and may be more common than we think. There is some research taking place currently and the current suggestion is that it’s to do with nutrient or mineral deficiency which is behind the behaviour. The research will explore both the reasons and means of limiting the impact on ground nesting birds by farm animals.
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