"Club" membership and CT
When the Caravan Club instigated this forum I think that they envisaged that it would act as a focus for members to both pass on useful information about our hobby and as a vehicle for discussing points of interest, with the added bonus of it being a way of advertising the Club to the wider caravanning population. At the start the vast majority of those that posted were club members, however over the intervening year the numbers that post on a regular basis has dramatically declined, and now many of those regulars who continue to post are no longer members of the club. Is this a reflection of the popularity of the club itself and that many past members are leaving, perhaps exacerbated by the "Club's" attitude to its members and the problems many are currently having with the new booking system.
Comments
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It is just possible that the older members have now realised that the "club" has become nothing more than a big business concerned with the holiday industry and that the intention of the "management" is to make as much money as they can without any sort of care for those that joined in order to meet like minded persons and have all of the benefits that The Caravan Club was set up to provide.The "it" department is an absolute joke!If it were not for access to cl type sites then I for one would move away after almost 50 years of paying my "subs"
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NTH, I agree with you that the original purpose of this forum was for members to pass on useful helpful information to others, and to share experiences - and notably it still serves that function in some areas - for example in the Overseas Section. I have no objection to non members joining in if they can offer helpful advice in that way
Sadly some of the other sections of the forum have been taken over by those who just wish to argue and to criticise what others have said, and by those who simply.wish to complain. And my goodness how they do complain! I know of no other external forum where contributors of that sort are so dominant.
I don’t think contributors drop out of this forum because the Club’s attitude or because of the new booking system. I think they drop out because of the tone of many posts which they read . And I am sad that things have gone that way.
Best regards.
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Nellie
I think what has happened in the last 10 years since this forum was established is the explosion of other Social Media opportunities such as Facebook. Most forums of this type I belong to have seen a massive drop in posts in recent years. Forums like Caravan Talk and UKCampsites you are lucky to get half a page of posts a day when a few years ago it would run into several pages. On the other hand people are more likely to use Facebook because its immediate and often on peoples smartphones. It's clear from the new booking system thread that many people now no longer use "proper computers" which have been replaced with phones and tablets. Whilst I have a tablet which is perfectly OK to read posts but I find replying is slow to using a laptop or desktop computer. That could just be personal as since the 90's I have been using computers both at home and at work.
I have some sympathy with ET's views on some posts. A little too often some play the player rather than the ball. We only have a very limited number of moderators on this forum and we can't be here all the time so things can get out of hand before we can get to it.
I don't think the original idea that accepting non members onto the forum would encourage them to join the Club really exists. Being a bit controversial I wonder if it's time not to allow non members to post on the forum any longer. I think it would be fine to allow what I call "Retired forum members" to continue to use the Social Room as a way of keeping in touch. Obviously that is not up to me but just my thoughts.
David
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I don’t think contributors drop out of this forum because the Club’s attitude or because of the new booking system.
ET, but this is exactly the reasons given for at least one of the regulars to hand in/not renew their membership, and I think there are others that have done similar. I too am sad of the way things have gone, but it has been a steady decline for a while now.
Fluffy one, we too are heading towards 50 yrs membership, and this is certainly not the "Club" we joined, much is the pity. We too will continue our membership but only because of the CL network, and whatever others say about club sites they are no better than many other commerce sites out there.
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I don't think the original idea that accepting non members onto the forum would encourage them to join the Club really exists
David, that was one of the reasons stated by Ro, if I remember correctly, when there was a lengthy discussion on the merits of allowing non-members to post on here. I think that it is only ex (retired) members that post as non-members these days, as I think you are right in that the FB page is more open to all, whether that is a good thing or not is up to each who post on there to decide. The attitude of those at HO who developed the new booking system have obviously no idea about what equipment those that tour for extended periods take with them, as they obviously have developed the system for laptops and not hand held devices, which betters belief from a touring "club".
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That’s a great idea it’s a really good way to continue the whole elitist charge that CAMC have tried hard to lose. Plus it would result in you getting even more bored🤷🏻♂️. Maybe even getting CT itself cancelled due to it just attracting Tumbleweed. I think you over aggrandise posting on CT, it’s mainly a social outlet not a bargaining chip🙄
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Good post David.👍
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I wasn’t in right at the very beginning Nellie, I took an interest a few months after the set up, and did indeed think what a good idea it was for folks who liked to tour to share ideas and help. Back then, it was very active, and had a lot of volunteer Moderators, some of whom if I recall correctly didn’t particularly get involved in sorting out any posts that didn’t adhere to the posting rules, but had some specialist knowledge of some sort, such as lots of overseas experience. I think of people like ValDa and Dianne to name two. The fact that it was open to non Members as well was a plus as far as I was concerned, as it provided a balanced view of topics, ideas and suggestions, different, but nonetheless relevant and informative. I do recall that it could get very “feisty” at times, and there were some serial offenders who had to be tackled in certain ways at times.
But I sort of ask myself just how much of an effort does the Club actually dedicate to the forum nowadays? No criticism of Ro, as I have no idea of her full role. But it’s lost a lot of impetus in a variety of ways. There appear to be only three active Moderators, which frankly isn’t enough. The few people who do post try at times to add some useful threads, helpful hints, welcome new posters.
There are some very very useful threads still. But it’s only human nature that some of the big changes, new ideas, ongoing developments will take centre stage every now and then, and let’s face it, like it or not, these past couple of years have seen some of the biggest. Such will polarise opinions, and sometimes it can be hard to to get some sort of “middle ground”. The Club don’t particularly help by hardly communicating at times, and it gives the impression of “so what, it’s done, get over it” which isn’t the attitude many folks expect from an organisation with “Club” in its name. Hence some of those that do post aren’t best pleased, some of those who might post once in a while rather than read aren’t getting their thoughts or suggestions given much credence?So, indeed, all sorts of folks are either walking away, or not posting as often as they once did. After 10 years, lots of folks will be giving up the hobby as well, for a variety of reasons.
CT forum has brought a lot of folks together in one way or another, and I value all those who I have actually met up with, and the other help and advice that some of those I have yet to meet have provided. I think it’s actually a few posters who do contribute stuff that are the lifeblood of a dwindling fraternity, but I don’t think the Club has the forum aspect of CT high on its “must keep” list.1 -
Nellie
You are correct that in the early days the Club actually said that they had quite a few new members recruited through Club Together. From my own observations over recent years I see little evidence of new non members registering and contributing to the forum. The vast majority of new posters are actually members before they post. The majority of non members that post on the forum have previously been members and for various reason have dropped their membership, in the main because they have stopped being active in the hobby but like to keep in touch. What none of us can see, of course, is how many people who are not members actually view Club Together. The Club might have that information as I expect they have web stats that show how many looking at the forum are actually logged in?
David
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I joined fairly early on, not sure if was right at the beginning, and have continued membership even now we no longer have a tourer, so I guess we fall in other that category, David. I still think it's an excellent bonus to have former members contributing, especially when they can offer years of advice on practical matters and sites for instance. I rarely post on club specific threads now except when I have some knowledge of how club matters compare with the forms of holiday we now take, for instance the latest furore over t&c. I think it would be a shame to have all that experience go to waste if former/non members were stopped from posting.
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My only comments would be about the very long delay for some who want to join the forum and the wait for approval, had it been me I would have given up! In the early days we could join rapidly and get involved. So whether it's members or non members the wait appears to be long.
I'm glad we have the forum as a social meeting place.
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I think a lot of what has been said on this thread is absolutely true. I wonder how people, members or not, find the forum. I have only been a member for a few years, despite being a Club member for yonks. I don’t know anyone on this forum, I don’t know whether they are members or not (with one or two exceptions). To me it is the quality of their posts that is important.
The debacle of the new booking site has undoubtedly led to a lot of new contributors, some who may have been lurking, but some are undoubtedly completely new to the forum. I do hope they remain contributors. It is also clear from some posts that contributors believe they are addressing the Club, which obviously they are not. And I think this demonstrates one major difference between this forum and many others. This one is embedded within the Club website itself instead of being totally independent. I belong and contribute to the Autosleeper forum, which is separate from the user association. It is not a part of Autosleeper. (incidentally we no longer have an Autosleeper).
So because this forum is a part of the Club contributors expect input from the Club itself, and I think that apparent lack of any interest in members views by the Club turns people away. Especially as many of the quite justifiable complaints many had about the new web site seem no nearer resolution that at the start.The Club’s poor communication record does it no service at all.
I also think the forum is not easy to navigate. I usually come to it via “recent activity” to see what is being talked about. But occasionally I want post on a thread that I know exists but isn’t current. Trying to find it is, i find, a nightmare. The search facility is dreadful. So I think that would also put off new members who have ventured in for a look around. But of course that is all to do with the Club IT department!!!
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Pro’s
meeting some lovely CT members in real life
Cons
boring and predictable.
What do I mean, well as an example site pricing has been an issue since I first joined in 2012, new threads 2 or 3 times a year, nothing has changed except sites getting more expensive.
IT, another continual issue for the last 5 years. The latest Booking thread has over 2,300 posts and nothing has really changed.
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Just as an aside, I get the distinct feeling the thread about the new booking system may have been viewed by IT and we have seen the many fixes being listed (it's not all down to complaints on trust pilot or feedback elsewhere.)
I look at other forums and they are much the same with familiar contributors popping up, I suppose it's become quite an old style way of communication but at least it has survived.
Yes it is very nice to meet people in real life Oneputt.....we are indeed real people on here!
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The trouble is that none of us know what the Club hierarchy think of Club Together. Easy to assume I suppose that as they don't take part that they are not interested? Perhaps they felt it would be good to allow members to communicate with each other and pass of tips and good practise rather than it being used as a tool to hit the Club over the head with a hammer so to speak. It's easy to think that all CT does is to provide a talking shop for the disaffected but a lot more goes on in the passing on of information about all sorts of things be that understanding why you might need a VPN connection to watch UK when abroad or Nellie's encyclopedic knowledge of CL's, so there is a lot of good out there.
When you get major changes like the name change and the new booking system it always generates posters in some numbers who we have previously not seen posting before and in many cases never see again. It could be that many of those don't normally take part in online forums but are so exercised by the changes they need to register their views. We can't even be sure they return to read any comments on their posts!
I feel the Club have missed an opportunity to use CT as a channel for communication with members and had it been more proactive in doing so maybe more people would find it a worthwhile place to spend time? It seems to me the Club lacks a Director of Communications who could coordinate information across the board rather than us getting it is dribs and drabs, it always seems to be behind the curve when it comes to communications.
David
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There seem to have been quite a few vacancies advertised recently at HQ around Marketing and Communications, so who knows, some things might change. I suspect the Club is very interested in the likely spend, and take up of different products on offer. There seem to be more such surveys arriving in my inbox on an almost monthly basis.
I think the Club considers the Reviews Section, and Your Stories as part of Club Together, along with the actual forum.1 -
Currently for various reasons our caravanning has been curtailed. But I still continue to log on and read posts on CT. It “keeps me in the loop” and I can feel I’m still a caravanner, and when life returns to normal for us, we can slip effortlessly back into the lifestyle.
There are aspects I don’t like (sniping, nit-picking etc), but it’s easy to just scroll on by.
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The biggest problem that CT has is that technology has over taken it. Anyone who regularly uses twitter, instagram etc is used to having rapid interactions, as well as the ability to say pretty much what they want, to who they want.
CT was designed for conversations on our hobby, as well as for the exchange of information and advice, but its inevitable that those used to using social media will bring those ways of communication to these forums.
I don't know what can be done to improve this, but I do feel that there is a desire amongst some members for more robust debate, as proved by recent posts on the Bookings thread. The trouble here is, that when things do get feisty, a moderator pops up and removes posts. This interupts the flow, and many subsequest posts are then out of context.
Now, I'm not saying that anyone should be profane, rude or name calling, but perhaps there should be an 'open' area, less moderated, where honest exchange of views can be shared. Similar threads could be created outside of this area for anyone not wanting robust debate. They can also avoid the open area if they don't like it.
As to non members contributing, then they could have access to 'open', but not elsewhere, particularly if their MO is to be disruptive, but it would be a shame if ex or lapsed members were unable to come here and share their valuble experience.
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I think the guidelines and terms and conditions for CT define things quite well. As part of the ethos of CAMC is to provide access to friendly social interaction anyone wanting robust or feisty exchanges can probably find it elsewhere.
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I think CT is still a good place for members to pass on helpful/useful info but there are now numerous other places/forums to find info.so perhaps that fact contributes to less people using CT.
I don’t spend time on social media at all but if the post title/subject matter on here (or CCC forum as I’m a member there also) is of interest I will read it (or some of it if there are lots of pages) and post if feel able to contribute in a positive way.
I guess there are others like myself who read but rarely post but like myself felt the need to post about the introduction of the new booking system before it was IMHO fit for purpose but may not contribute to CT again. We all make personal choices
I will continue to avoid mainstream CAMC sites until there is an easy to use booking system. or maybe I’ll turn up at a ‘non-honeypot’ site and ask if they have a free pitch.
Everything changes, nothing stays the same forever thankfully.
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I suppose I fall into the category of one of those members who post less frequently than I used to. Why?🤫
I still like to pass on any advise I can but I tend to agree with Oneputt's post. Some posts, particularly but not exclusively, when Club sites are involved, in any shape or form, tend to become tedious. Too much regurgitation, too much minutae nit picking, too many cliques.
I like to think of myself as being able to agree or disagree with any poster as we have spent as much time abroad as we have in the UK and, particularly more so in the past, on club sites, before using CLs more and more. We have always used Independent sites as and when. However some posters have entrenched views (my opinion obviously) and I really can't be bothered getting involved in long drawn arguments where neither view is likely to change.
Anyway health problems gives one a better perspective of what really matters and what one wants to do with ones spare time.
I hope CT does survive as I think quite a few non regulars and one off posters can be found seeking advise and even regulars with years of experience still find ourselves in need of advise from time to time.
Good Opening Post Nellie.
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My original post was twofold, and I think that most replies have attempted to answer the first part of my question, thanks for your input. However the second part, see below, seems to have been missed/avoided so perhaps members have no set opinions on the subject?
now many of those regulars who continue to post are no longer members of the club. Is this a reflection of the popularity of the club itself and that many past members are leaving, perhaps exacerbated by the "Club's" attitude to its members and the problems many are currently having with the new booking system?
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Nellie
I am not sure the second part of your question is as easy to answer because how would we know? Just out of interest I went back to the last couple of pages of the forum dating back to 2012 and I checked the profile of 16 people that posted all those years ago on the first two pages. That was 16 people in total, it seems that 14 are still listed as members and 2 not which given what can happen over a ten year period doesn't seem to suggest people leaving in droves? In the same way that there was not a mass exit due to the name change despite people saying they would leave will the same be true of the new booking system? I suppose we will have to wait until the next AGM when membership figures are published. Unless there was a massive spike in leavers it would be difficult to attribute those leavers as being due to the new booking system. But then how would you differentiate between people who have left because of the economic situation or those who have reached the end of their active participation in our hobby? The only reliable way would be for the Club to survey leavers to understand their reasons for leaving?
David
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Nellie, Now that it is just so quick and easy to book a Club site directly from the website one would think that tne complaints and threats to resign membership would dry up. But members have convinced themselves that making a Club site reservation under the new system is hard - and have convinced others along the way - so the complaints are still posted on here every day.
At least it’s a change from complaints about early arrivals, the name of the Club, the Cirencester approach road, speeding at 10 mph, loud music, trespassing on a pitch, not using the lavatory brush, children cycling …and dogs.Have a good day.
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I have an opinion Nellie😁 It’s only access to the CL’s, and being able to find them via searchforsites and UKcampsites that keeps us paying the Membership fee. During early stages of COVID, Club HQ made some decisions we didn’t agree with, so we let our nearly 30 year membership lapse. We wanted the CLs when we got back out after lockdown, so rejoined purely for access to CLs. Without access to the CL network, we wouldn’t rejoin.
I enjoy chatting with folks on CT, reading about interesting visits, sharing sites and places of interest, and use it to keep in touch with some folks whose emails I don’t have.3 -
Out of interest Euror did you find the new booking system quick and easy when you recently booked sites and have you sent your compliments to the "team"?
Nellie, I've noticed many new people posting on CT recently, mostly about the new booking system and I think CAMC are listening when I read the list of fixes. I don't think leaving helps sort out things but it's an indication that confidence is low. Just my own thoughts.
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Now that it is just so quick and easy to book a Club site directly from the website one would think that tne complaints and threats to resign membership would dry up
That may well be your opinion, but it certainty isn't for many members, some who have already said that they have left the "club". Perhaps if one knows exactly where and when one wants to go it is relatively easy, but not as easy as previously, but for those wanting to search certain regions and particularly look at the CLs in that area, when not using a laptop, it is an unmitigated failure.
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