Solar Vs Generator
With the advent of relatively powerful low cost solar systems should the use of generators on site be restricted more than currently so?
3 CLs I've visited this year had at least one generator buzzing away which is odd as their use IMO had been less over previous years.
I accept that there could be medical reasons to need to use a generator.
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It's up to the CL owners to decide whether to impose restrictions.
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Can’t run my air conditioning from a solar panel.
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Generator = noisy, smelly, polluting anti social!
Solar = quiet, non-polluting, efficiency!
On a rally at the moment and whilst the vast majority of the units are e very happily running on solar two just can't manage without running the noisy generators!
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We had a generator next to us on the THS two weeks ago, I guess it was for charging his ebike batteries.
however, we have two ebikes and charge them using a 500w inverter. each morning (by say 9:30) the van batteries were topped back up following previous evening use, TV etc and so I was able to turn on the inverter to charge the ebikes.
with 300w of solar, there was enough sun to be able to run the inverter without impacting the van batteries at all. All perfectly quiet (tiny inverter is virtually silent) and certainly not smelly.im able to charge the bikes, run a Sky box, have showers, use lights, run Netflix and Amazon on a Firestick just like I would be doing if I was on EHU.
I just need a larger inverter to run OH travel hairdryer...
120w panel will easily support a nights TV, lights and water pump.
Move towards 200w and ebikes can be charged without impact.
300w/400w probably seen as overkill, however (with appropriate solar regulator and wiring) this can provide enough sunlight to power a three way fridge on 12v once leisure batteries are full switching it from gas automatically. A Dometic 8 Series fridge/freezer requires 130w of power on 12v.
...or I could fire up the gennie😉
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120w panel will easily support a nights TV, lights and water pump.
and a 750w inverter which I use to charge our bikes. My 180APH AGM battery never even noticed the load this year. I get a charge from my 120w panel even under trees on a cloudy day. Modern SPs don't need sunlight to do the job, daylight is often sufficient. Charging bike batteries overnight is probably a different matter. However, I like to charge them in the day while the SP is putting charge into the battery. Evening time is 12v telle time and overnight I charge tablets and phones.
My 1KVA generation is languishing in the garage awaiting power failures or use with power tools.
The solar panel is a fixed installation on the roof, you have to lug heavy, often smelly generators around and they need maintaining unlike a solar panel.
peedee
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That's good to know, PeeDee. I did used to do it with my single 100w panel but I just had to be a bit more careful and not pull the batteries too low too quickly.
as I said you have to get the basics right and my Epever MPPT regulator seems to do a good job. I also have (getting on a bit) AGMs, 2 x 95ah but they still do a pretty good job.
I didn't use the EHU battery charger at all during our three months in Spain but do need to resolve the 1200w hairdryer issue, which means a 1500w inverter or larger. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
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lol, I don't (short hair) but OH has thicker hair and a tad longer....
Just been researching 12v hairdryers but at 500w or less they are lacking puff. I tried one a couple of years back and it was not good.
As DD has a 800w one I guess that would be better but that's mains running from the inverter., I could do the same with our 1200w version with a larger inverter.
to run say 800w direct from 12v thats 66 amp so some decent cabling required.
I prefer the larger inverter route TBH.
I actually looked at rechargeable units but the requirement for heat means shortish running times even from a decent battery which then takes 3 hours to charge...have you seen the price of a Dyson!?
re the fridge...my understanding is that on a repeating predetermined time cycle the controller evaluates the leisure battery state against the 'spare' solar capacity and decides if the power source switch can be made.
the actual change is instigated by sending a 'D+' signal to the fridge (special wire) which replicates the signal sent when the alternator runs following engine start up.
as the solar fades, or battery charge falls, the 'evaluation' process might decide the fridge should switch back to gas and the 'D+' signal is turned off, as if the engine is switched off.
hope that makes sense.
I haven't got to using this process yet, happy with cheap LPG but if things move a lot in the wrong direction it's an option.
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Don’t think we have ever stayed on a CL where anyone was running a generator. Not sure how quiet they are nowadays, but certainly wouldn’t want to sleep next time one. We seem to manage most of our needs away with the odd night on an EHU to top up bike batteries.
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Some tour the whole summer from THS to THS and don't have access to EHU. Travelling can top up leisure batteries but transferring that to mains powered bike chargers requires kit and thought...
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I've got 3x100W panels in series feeding two 120AH Lithiums which, in turn, powers a 1500W inverter. I can run a travel kettle, toaster and 600W microwave with that setup. No orange umbilical required. Refillable gas cylinders with gas at between a third and a quarter of the price that Calor charge takes care of the fridge and hot water.
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That is a serious off grid set up CY, rather overkill for us. We don't genrally carry 240v powered devices the exception being a hair dryer which can be run off the 750 watt inverter at a push on the low setting. We don't have an electric toaster or micro wave, We can do toast on the gas grill and boil water on the gas hob the latter only when off grid otherwise we use an 800w travel kettle.
peedee
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In summer, or wintering away, the big bonus is the sunshine and a decent solar set up can drive all sorts of devices without needing too large a battery bank.
switch to autumn/winter in the uk and that seemingly limitless topping up fades away and large batteries, especially lithium, come into their own. Driving between sites will top them up and they can be discharged much further than other types, making their capacity far more usable...but expensive(ish).
Although we van throughout the year, always doing New Year somewhere in the UK, we tend to follow the sun for the greater part of winter so haven't yet found the need to upgrade the batteries. I will have to at some point, they're getting on a bit. Perhaps it will be lithium then.
Larger inverter on the list, but just picked up on PeeDee's point re running hairdryer on lower setting...something to try.
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Re generators
We we’re on the dock in Bilbao where you can stay overnight, ready to board the ship the following morning. In this situation you are in the designated lines and there is hardly a fag paper between you and the caravan/Motorhome next to you. On this occasion the caravan next to me started up a generator. When I questioned how long they intended to run the generator he replied as long as I need to, “I have come prepared as there is no electrical hook up” I replied that I olso had come prepared and was running on gas in the main with the addition of my leisure battery.
He was still adamant that he would run his generator, although after some further requests from the rest of caravans nearby eventually turned it off at 10.30 pm although turned it back on again at 7.15am the next morning.
Some people !!!!!!
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'Some people' see a generator as a portable power source, which it is. It's also a noisy power source, unless built in to a larger vehicle.
it's just 'easy' to plug it into the EHU cable just as you'd do on site. These guys aren't off grinders, they're more likely EHU vanners with a generator😉
many don't understand that it's not necessary to keep the batteries at 'full' and that a nearly full battery still delivers 12 volts.
whether site owners will start to get tougher as more look to greener, quieter, less smelly solutions.
I did read the 'site rules' at the THS I was at recently and it does say generators ONLY with the wardens permission and only at certain times of the day. Did my neighbour check with the warden? I don't know...🤷🏻♂️
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No I personally don't like the noise from generators or vehicle engines running to top up batteries. We were on a rally a few years ago and someone went out for the day and left their generator running, it suddenly made a terrible noise and ground to a halt. End of generator and peace restored.
We manage perfectly well off ehu with 100w solar and gas. There could be future problems with gas supplies but gas and solar are OK at present.
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Brue, for many folk just using a bit of tv, evening lights, phone charging, water pump etc this is fine and 100w will keep you ticking over nicely in summer. We had a single 100w panel and it did the same as you.
I had the opportunity to add a second panel (thanks to a generous CT member) and felt I'd add a third while I was at it....so far, this has worked very well.
it's once folk try to replicate the use of the many devices they accrue over time, and now take for granted in their vans, that further changes might be required.
coffee machines, hairdryers and charging ebikes need an inverter and will use larger chunks of battery power in a short time, as will the use of an electric kettle over one on the gas hob.
I happen to like Aldi's coffee, OH can't use hairdryer and am happy to use a gas hob.😉
however, as prices of lithium batteries fall, folk replacing older batteries now have a new viable choice which was, perhaps, previously out of reach. Once these are installed you have some great building blocks for a pretty robust off grid system.
those that take this route and have a good solar array will, with a mid/largish inverter, be able to run all their internal 230v sockets as if they were powered from external mains.
it depends how much time you spend away from sites and what appliances you wish to use during that stay.
folk are happy at both ends of the 'non EHU' spectrum but with the advent of cheaper, lighter lithium batteries, the temptation is there to exploit their advantages.
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+1, Lithium has way less restrictions re charge/discharge storage.
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Add to that one of the new ecoflow type solar generators inline as a failsafe futureproofer is near 100% freedom(power wise)👍🏻
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We've managed short non ehu breaks in winter with our roof top solar panel, it works quite well in various light levels.
We've recently purchased a home generator for power cut emergencies (a local bargain spotted by OH.)
Other than that we like to keep things simple as we don't want to replicate home when away. The only thing I miss is a hairdryer but that's nothing really in the scheme of things. I recently purchased a USB charged table lamp and I always take a solar/wind up radio plus a small usb Sony radio with a lithium battery. Interestingly this radio is several years old and the lithium power is waning. We don't watch much TV when away. Everyone is different but I don't like noisy generators when I've gone away for a quiet break.
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Isn't this a just box (of differing capacities) housing a lithium battery and an inverter?
the largest version has basically a 100ah battery and a 1800w inverter at £1300. to buy these separately for a MH would be about £700.
Might be a useful (one box) substitute for, say, a vanner who doesn't have these things already, but for a van kitted already with a decent battery bank and a largish inverter, it's not required. Could be (expensive) back up, I guess?
either way, the charge still has to be replenished, just like any other system and an 'integrated' system in a MH will already have that set up...solar, alternator or EHU when available, so no extra cabling all over the place.
yes, it's portable, and that might be its key point, but how many folk have more than one leisure vehicle?
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Portability is key. We have regular power outages out here(like Brue), last one was almost 12hrs, the generator can double up to run a house👍🏻. They can be charged by wind, solar or when driving. Think big is my motto(cerebrally expansive), make your money work for you it’s not just to save a few shekels by sitting in a lay-by for a few days.
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Not quite sure where you're going with this.
Yes I agree it's portable and it can service other locations, perhaps the similar environment of a boat where the demand is similar to a MH. The unit also has to be stored somewhere. Many vans don't have space reasonably sized storage.
I'm not sure how long a house would survive on a 100ah battery. Run anything significant on mains and you're drawing 20 times the amperage of a mains device (12volt agains 230volt).
A 1KW electric fire draws just over 4 amp from the mains but, via a 12v inverter, it will use 20 times that, over 83ah. the battery will be dead in just over an hour.
depending on time of year (temperature) and length of outage you won't stay warm for long, build a fire. The unit might keep lights on for a while, and power your tv for a bit, but many will have a torch and/or candles for this purpose.
if you want to think big (cerebrally expansive🤷🏻♂️) get a large petrol generator or wind turbine??
BTW, not sure why the 'pointed' remark at the end of your post but I rarely spend shekels (sic) and spend even less time in lay byes...none.
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No pointed remark BB👍🏻, merely based on what I read as folk demand to ‘wild camp’ on the cheap, your name wasn’t mentioned. I’m talking about 2048Wh expandable to 8192Wh. It will run a home temporarily & that is what covers a power outage. I’m not entering a black Dog contest I’m merely proving that solar generators are both the future & can help in many situations. I don’t want 1 thing for 1 job but 1 thing for many jobs😊
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