CL or not?
We had a meet up with some friends and left the CL booking to them as it was their turn to choose. It was a superb location and with good facilities if slightly compact for 5 vans, however the site can be booked online with no club membership number requirement. I am sure that this is the case for many CL's with websites along with FB booking groups etc. It was apparent that several pitches were probably occupied by non members, I'm not adverse to this as it is similar to some club sites although wardens are then present to ensure sanity prevails. Maybe there should be categories of CL to cater for non members just so we know when booking?
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No CL is allowed to take non members to stay as it is breaking the agreement to be able to operate as a CL ,if you do find it happening , please advise the club because they could be depriving members of the club their right to stay
Non members staying on club sites are not only expected to follow club rules they also are charged £13.00per night over what the site they are on site charges are
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The words "appear" and "probably" should perhaps not be used in the context of who is using a site. It is important that misinformation is not promoted unless real facts are known.
We've recently booked a CL, they were using the recently formed CL owners group booking system (we weren't aware of this till we logged onto the personal web site not via the group one.) We were quite definitely asked for our membership number. This particular group promotes the proper use of CLs.
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I think suspicions are sufficient grounds to bring a possible breach of exemption rules to the club. It is then up to the club to investigate.
I remember TG's recent stay on a CL with more than 5 vans. When questioned the site owner claimed the club was OK with the situation due to exceptional circumstances. We were then told by Maddie that the club would never authorise exceeding the 5 van limit. I quote this as an example of how it is unlikely any one of us can establish the facts so reporting suspicious activity is all we can do.
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Let me beg to differ with those who seem to want to keep non members out. By all means charge a reduced site fee to those who have a paid a Club membership subscription, but I firmly believe that camping, caravanning and motorhoming is a democratic pastime and that sites should be open to all. This Club has a long history of being rather elitist and superior - it’s time that “members only” attitudes ended and that everyone should be made welcome.
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You frequently make such comments regarding the exemption system, Euro, and I don’t necessarily disagree with you but you know it is outwith the club’s power to change the existing arrangement. Have you contacted your MP about it?
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That attitude is fine if we are all not paying a membership fee. We regularly use CL's and pay our membership fee simply because we want to exercise our member's right to use the CL's. Why should people who haven't paid the fee get access to CL's? It's nothing to do with democracy.
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Wrong, Fish. Rules are far more than only guidelines and there's every chance of someone being caught. I think it's time you stopped perpetrating this view.
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Supposition, Fish, and your opinion. You cannot know that for fact.
Despite what you would like to see, we are where we are with the present system and, until and unless the law is changed, we need to work with what we have within the existing rules. I’m afraid continually moaning about it here will achieve nothing. Try approaching Govt one way or another.
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That's the way I read it too, brue, however the C&CC have a different way of working and one can join at their CS sites, or at least that used to be the case.
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There are so many jobsworth's out there and the CMCC has a fair share. Lots of CL's are barely booked from one year to the next and yet have invested time, effort and money in to keeping them going. You don't have to be in the club to offer your site to members, OK. for the advertising and potential bookings that being part of the network brings maybe in return offer a discount to members. There are plenty of CL closures to match the new openings every month, one wonders why? Perhaps they are happy to go it alone or just fed up of the moaners and self appointed CL Police.
For those that complain that there were 6 vans on site, wouldn't you be grateful being the 6th one to have their booking accepted? They probably have less than 5 most of the time too.
One of the best CL's I have visited not only offers fully serviced pitches as well as a superb shower and toilet block but also has an excellent information room. They used to offer both eggs and a few bottles of wine for sale, payment was in an honesty box. The wine was there purely for those in desperate need and was sold at the price paid for it from what I could see. Some pathetic individual actually put in a complaint that they were selling alcohol without a licence so they withdrew the facility. Say no more!
Incidentally, the said CL offers prices per night from £14.50.
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The exemption system is not just used by the CAMC and the CCC. The list of exempted organisations runs to over 10 pages, but only a few can issue para 5 exemptions.
Paragraph 5: Sites Approved by Exempted Organisations
With this exemption, an organisation can select sites for its members to stay on, by issuing
certificates to the landowner or occupier. These certificates are valid for up to one year. Non members are allowed to stay on the site if the organisation and the landowner agree to it.The law would not need to be changed to make the 5 van sites open to non members. It is the policy of both big clubs to make the 5 van sites members only. It is not in the interests of the clubs to make the CL/CS sites open to non members. Many members are members for the CLs only.
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Yes, that is the current legislation and what we have to work with unless and until the law changes. That’s exactly why the clubs won’t allow non-members, and why should they when they are the bodies obtaining the exemption right and certificating the sites for their members' benefit?
I have also seen something that says words to the effect of the exempting organisation needing to be responsible for the folk who use the sites.
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As an individual there is nothing one can do. Its organizations like this club who can take things forward if they want to. It seems the club is not really interested. All I can do is assist those who want to expand in my local area of influence and a number are expanding outside the CL regime with no problems. The downside is the Cl network shrinks.
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There are things you can do. Start by lobbying your AM and take it from there. Contact organisations who issue exemption certificates and make a case showing what they could gain by lobbying for change. There are options if you want to take them, or it maybe easier to sit back and fret about it. The choice is yours.
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To me, the pertinent point of having more than the 5 on site is Space.
If 6 or 7 units are crammed in then I would object. If those 6 or 7 were on a very spacious CL with plenty of room between pitches then I wouldn't.
I've stayed on a site with 0.5 acre and there were 7 on it. Fortunately I was only there for 2 night. I have also stayed on one with 2 Acres and this time there were 8 on for 2 nights over a weekend but I had loads of space so there was no problem.
I also have been the sixth on site but usually pitched outside of the CL boundary and like AD was grateful for it.
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My mistake as I thought it was the exemption system you wanted to change because that’s what your posts always indicate.🤷🏻♂️
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Well why not list those sites in the specific post in the Sites section for Small sites?
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I stayed recently on a site that had 6 or 7 over a night or two. Massive field with enough spacing to feel that you were almost alone.
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As a CL owner I find proof of membership difficult to determine, Yes I can ask to see the members card, it will tell me a name, a number, and a renewal date, I have no way of telling if the persons name on the card is the same as the person presenting it.
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The same goes for club sites, David. All you can do is ask to see the card and that means you've discharged your responsibility. I can’t imagine that the incidence of fraudulent use of CAMC cards is very high but, in the unlikely event of it happening on your site, you cannot be held responsible if you’ve done as the club asks and checked the arriving camper has a card.
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