Internet should be free
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I am reminded of the old adage – exceptions prove the rule. If you want to make the point that this Wifi provision had absolutely no cost to you, because you paid no more to stay at the site than you had to pay when there was no internet, then one cannot argue. Plainly, your assertion that the WiFi was thus "free" is difficult to dispute.
However, such a literal way of looking at this is not what this is about and I think it misses Micky’s point.
He was making a generalisation about how business works; I do not think you can call him out with anecdotal examples, especially because, as CLs, they might not be a valid case. In any case, he did himself mention that some may treat the cost as a loss leader; but, as he said, it remains a cost.
In the short term, your CLs have decided that the cost of the Wifi can be paid for within their existing rates; perhaps they are hoping they will maintain the profit that they were making because the free internet will bring in more customers. If it doesn’t then, in the long run, they will have to put up prices, charge for the internet, or take a loss. The “free” internet is short term.
If it does bring in more customers then it just means that each customer is to a tiny extent subsidising the Wifi – by having more customers they cover the cost of the WiFi, but the owner makes the same (or more) profit or less loss. But it is still a cost that each customer is covering. I might argue that whilst they were not offering free WiFi, they were overcharging.
There are two follow up points. Firstly, CLs are different and not a good example of a business model. In most cases they represent a supplementary source of income and a lot of costs are spread over other revenue streams.
Secondly, I wonder how much it would cost for a CL to provide Wifi. I don’t know the answer, and it will obviously vary from CL to CL, but I understand that a reasonably standard modern router will reach up to 92 metres outdoors. It might well be – I don’t know, I am just guessing – that the CLs did not actually have to pay a great deal more than they already pay for their own private or business WiFi and that, in fact, it had very little marginal cost to them at all. But whether it did or not, it doesn’t alter the case that Micky and others have made in this thread. There’s no such thing as a free lunch, everything has a cost!
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Absolutely right Gradyjames on all points. At the end of the day sites will have incurred costs for WiFi, both for installation and running, as they will for water along with several other ‘hidden’ to us costs. All will eventually need to be factored into that realistic budget which, in turn, will inform and determine that end user pricing structure. That’s how budgets work. To us punters pushing so called ‘free’ WiFi may just be a far better advertising ploy than suggesting ‘free’ water. Neither are free. Starbucks, Costa Coffee, restaurants, hotels and the like will without doubt all factor these costs into their budgets and determine charges accordingly.
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It would be a starting point for members to put the cost in perspective. At present we are commenting on an issue without being aware of the real costs.
Colin
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I can’t see that the real cost would matter to us one iota. We don’t know the full story and are never likely to. Whether it cost £5 or £500k, our bleating counts for nothing as, if the club says it's chargeable, that’s the end of the story. There really is no need for the likes of you and I to debate costs.
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Sounds like this thread has come to an end..For me it has just confirmed my booking of a main site will continue to be a last resort. I will just continue to use the club for the diminishing number of services it offers that give excellent value and quality.
Colin
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If having inclusive to cost wifi is so important, and for me it isn't even on the list anymore, then a club site is best avoided at the present time.
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It ended before it started, EM. It’s been debated umpteen times before.
If internet access is so important, I think you'd be better off making your own arrangements as many of us do but whether it's charged as an extra or part of an inclusive price, the quality won’t be affected by the method of payment. If you like club sites, it seems rather strange, if I may say so, to stop using them over such a small issue as chargeable and rubbish Wi-fi. The good bit is that, at present, you don’t have to pay at all.
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The wifi issue for me is not the defining point, but part of the overall package. I'll go out on a limb and admit I don't really like club sites after having spent most of my caravan and camping time abroad. I think there are many like me who don't feel comfortable packed in tightly on what appears to be a well manicured car park, admittedly with a usually excellent wash block.
This is obviously MY opinion and we are all different. I respect the fact that the club sites offer a good package at an attractive price for many members and long may they be happy.
The three photos for interest show the Durham C&MC site currently at about £25/30 and an independent site, Greenacres of Carlisle at £21 less than a week later. Greenacres has 12 foot square wet rooms with underfloor heating and wifi included etc. It offers excellent facilities, great space and all at an amazing price. This is why I have such an opinion.
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So nothing to do with Wi-fi at all really🤷🏻♂️
Good luck on your better sites, EM, but a site in Carlisle ain’t much use if you need to be in the Durham area😁. Have you tried the club's non-fac offering at Englethwaite? It’s quite cheap and a lovely spot.
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We stopped at Cayton Bay CAMC site last month at £29.40 a night including hook up.
Wifi was £3.50 for a single day - does it really need to cost that much ?
We are off to a CL site next week at £15 a night including hook up – and I'm told by the owner that Wifi is free ….....
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and of course I'm sure they are taken with the same focal length
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Oh I so much agree but then I am the same as thousands of others, that know what is in their best interests
We have in the past used CLs and commercial sites, if we need to be in an area that has not got a club site.
We tried to book a CL last week as a club site on our amended at short notice tour was full on the days needed, and despite two calls to there answer phone and an email, still waiting a reply (no mention on answer phone if away)but a later call to the club site was a positive for the dates wanted. (it pays to talk)
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The discussion over what should be provided within the set site fee is similar to the debate on electricity charges about 15 years ago.
I would suggest that most members use some form of connected device probably daily and therefore would support the capital expenditure by our own club to vastly improved WiFi on site. Those who grumble that the cost is prohibitive run the risk of being left behind!
On the EU sites, WiFi is an expectation and the fees are usually €20-€30
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I don’t follow your logic there. If I already pay to run my own device, why would I be willing to support the club, either financially or spiritually, in forking out money to duplicate what I already have?
However, mine is not a grumble about the cost as such but the fact that we are asked to pay for something that is frequently not fit for purpose.
Your figures for site Wi-fi in Euroland are meaningless. Is that per day, week, year? Also, we have no idea of the operating costs overseas so it serves to make no comparison.
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Perhaps showers could be paid for as many do not want to use them, and what about dogs as so many of us do not have a dog. We use CL's mainly and many of these have free wifi.
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I’m happy to pay for dog walks, showers, dish washing facilities etc because they all work as they should and are fit for purpose if I choose to use them. Site Wi-fi on the other hand…..
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If it was the clubs WiFi I would agree. There would be little difference between it and other facilities one may or may not choose to use. However, the payments for the Wi-fi are made to a third party supplier, so presumably they would want the equivalent of all those £30 a year or £10 a week they are currently getting to supply the service. Not quite as simple as writing off the cost as I think the C&CC have done.
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I can't recall having a major problem with using my phone internet. I've never paid for site internet of any description and I wonder if, in the future 'site internet' will even exist on a large scale. Internet access via a mobile phone is improving so much, I suspect 'site internet' will be the exception.
David
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+1, I’m ready for an upgrade to include 5G, the advancements in camera tech will be a bonus. 6G is in the pipeline😊
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