Practical towing experience using an EV.
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Until, you can know what the club pays for their electricity, which will be higher than domestic rates you cannot know how the charges are worked out
And it is as many people say why should I reduce my usage when I have already paid in my pitch fee, so at the prices that at the moment are probably expecting the same reaction, and it would not be every day the charge would need to be levied? Or are EVs more power hungry than we are led to believe
I think it was put into perspective when guy Martin took an EV on an even hundred mile journey to John O Groats , and used very High speed chargers , and it cost him about a third more than it would have with a diesel ice and took 27hrs with the time it took to keep charging the EV
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This is true, though the average domestic price is 16p per kWh inc VAT. Presumably The club as a large user will pay a reasonable market rate, and don't pay VAT. I am not at all averse to paying a premium over the clubs rate - I am averse to paying in a way that is not sensible for BEV.
How frequently you need to charge is of course down to how much you use. If you plan to drive 150 to 200 miles every day you are on site, you may use all of the juice you can gather. For me - it totally depends on the site and the regional location. On some site the car may not move from one day to another or even for several days in a row. On others I may use a few miles every day. My EV will up to 240ish miles on a single full charge if I drive sensibly. IF my driving is "spirited" it may be much less - just like with an ICE car. I would always want a full charge for the car to complete on the morning of departure for the journey home.
Hmm - Mr Martin's program. As you may (or may not) have seen, two elements of his program have provoked pretty significant responses from both EV supporters and those who are not sold on the idea. - The J'O'G trip, and his closing statement.
On J'O'G His experience was poorly conceived and poorly executed. As posted else where on these forums, I recently did a 600+ mile holiday with the caravan in tow for over 400 of those miles for about £50 of electricity. I actually used the same ultra-rapid 350Kw Ionity charger brand that Guy used for two of my charging stops, with a total cost of £21 for 83kWh of electricty between the two, at 30p per kWh. That would have equated to £100 for 1200 miles _while towing for 800_ which would have still been £40 less than the diesel cost while solo!
Just a little bit of planning, not driving with a mega-heavy right foot and using some of the tools available would have yielded a different result. But - Who tries to drive 1100 miles in 24 hours in any normal world anyway?
His closing statement that EVs are only good for up to 50 miles from home... Well lets say that almost every EV driver would disagree.
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You may have seen when I posted about one of our neighbours who owns a 15reg Phev, it tends to only be used by his OH to take him and pick him up from the local station 2mileeach way, and local journeys it ,but as he says ,it now need charging more often although annual mileages are near enough the same, ,he as us ,live where we have no access to charge from the house ,unless he parks on a public green ,or finds a charging point?
He has thought about changing his vehicle but says it is almost worthless as Px ,because of the age of the battery ,so he is resigned to keeping it
As he also says as most EVs are company or lease cars would anyone by a 3yr old car with no history of how it had been driven , unless it had a new battery
PS guy Martins problems it seems complicated by trying to find chargers that were working or did what it says they are supposed to
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I have a 66 plate PHEV along side my BEV. During lockdown almost all my mileage was EV only. I charge it every night to full, and sometimes (now I have the BEV) it sits for days. It still has full range. According to Auto-trader its still worth about 20K market rate... the battery is under warranty by Volvo for 8 years. I am considering PXing it not because its range is poor, but because I dont use its ICE. But I am not, because the EV part suits me very well as second car, and gives us options if the BEV is off doing something else.
It may well be true that may EVs are company cars, and I sure that this year will see a huge boom in them. The idea of buying any 2nd hand car (EV or not) that is ex-lease will give some folks pause, but they have a service history like anything else, and a simple look at the mileage will tell you how it has been driven. EV batteries are proving to be far far more reliable than anyone thought with 1st gen Leafs have done over 100,000 miles and teslas used as taxis over 300,000 with only 5% battery degradation. Newer battery tech is even more robust and we are on 4th or 5th gen for most cars now with active cooling / heating systems that maintain the battery very very effectively.
Guy's problem was he didn't do any planning. He didn't plan for the speed he was driving at. He didnt check that the 1st charger he stoped at was working (though he had zapmap) he went to the second charger very close to the first (why not go there first), but decided not to stay there (even though it was working and fast). He didn't sign up for a discount on the expensive fast charger (the 77p charger, I pay 30p on). He didnt look to see if the JoG charger was working before he relied on it. None of these things are hard. My car will tell me all of that direct from Google maps on the main screen.
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Ps a bit different to a 15 plate Phev in the ownership of a family man with a mortgage in Hertfordshire computer belt of London
I do not need all that, I check where I am towing to and arrival times then set off with our 63plate sportage auto, that is my planning
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Hmm - see thats not quite true. Do you check how much fuel you have before you leave? Do you decide if you want to fuel on route or not? Do you decide where to fuel prior to coming home? If the answer to those questions is "no" then I admit you are like no other caravan tower I have ever met, and you don't plan.
You plan with an ICE, andin future because an EV is different, you would (I do) plan with that.
People don’t just drive their ICE car until they suddenly realise they have no fuel left and then panic stop with 10 mile or less range to go. They look at their gauge when they get in and have an internal conversation that goes “Can I get where I am going today without stopping for fuel? If I have to stop, where should I do it? And can I get home again? Should I stop on the way there when It might be less busy or on the way back when I have more time? If I don’t need to fill today, will I need to tomorrow? Should I fill today, rather than tomorrow as the place I am going tomorrow has no fuel, or at least it’s expensive? Can I wait until the day after and fuel at the supermarket?” Etc. That is called planning. We all did it in an ICE, however subconsciously, and now, because EVs are new (to some people) they have to consciously plan, which is harder because they have not had to do it in a long time, and the parameters are unfamiliar and different.0 -
Why plan to pick up fuel? I usually pick up fuel on the way to storage if needed, and my tank will, take me to my next site we are stopping at,and more never had any problem if out for the day and may need fuel just pull in for five minutes and fill up
it seems you are out of touch now with real ICE travel0 -
Yep, that’s planning👍🏻
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That’s what I said. Planning with an EV is different to planning with an ICE, but it’s all planning. Is EV planning slower? Maybe the first few times, but you soon get the hang. And as I say, for day to day (non holiday) it’s super trivial. Drive somewhere. Drive home plug-in. Repeat. Always be ready to go the next day…
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And as I said IF you have a property that is close enough to allow daily? Plug ins to be ready fir next day, our ICE would be ready when I parked up even if not outside our house and even if right outside which to charge as you a lead Of about 25mtrs across a grass verge then a public footpath and another grass verge and plug in overnight.?
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Good luck with that one, CT😀
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200 to 250 miles a day with 1500kg would be straight forward. Have a look at PlugShare or ABRP (a better route planner) to see the charging locations across Europe.
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EV won’t be for everyone yet. The inability to home charge is a barrier for adoption for some folks, again dependent on circumstances. I have colleagues who can’t home charge but drive EVs without issue. I have a neighbour who has had his EV since 2017, was given a home charger with it but never bothered to install and never charges at home. The charger is still in a box in his garage. For him it was a mindset. He wanted an EV, found a way to make it happen and it did.
If you have a house that is near a road, but does not have off road parking, it is legal to trail a cable over a footpath to charge, unless your local authority has a specific bylaw preventing it. If part of the distance from the house to the road is your private land, you can install the charger close to the road. It doesn’t have to be on your house, and you don’t have to have private or off-road parking. If neither of those is possible, you can apply to your local authority to install a charger in your road. There are specific government grants for the purpose. Or of course you can do nothing and just carry on with what you have.
Just to be clear - I am not trying to persuade anyone to get an EV if they don’t want one. My aim is to help debunk the myths and untruths around EVs, myths like - you can’t tow, or the range is terrible, or it will take forever to get anywhere, or its impossible to charge in public, or EVs are inconvenient. Almost everything is based on personal circumstances.0 -
I agree with most of your post ?the mention of some cannot charge at home should read many who cannot we have been told not to run cables
I take it the person who as those who work in companies that have charging points uses that to save money on his electric usage?
It will cost many millions in our area alone to upgrade and modify the infrastructure for eV charging it has been assessed already by I think our local civic society
Ps just this morning I have read that the 2025 cut off for gas boilers has been put back to 2040
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The running of cables (or prohibition of) is very annoying, and needs challenging with each area. Many councils don't have an issue as long as a cable cover is used or a channel for the cable provided. Its such a simple solution for a number of folks and would massivly help.
My neighbour drives a Tesla and charges at work and on the supercharger network. He has about a 45 mile round trip commute.
My colleagues public charge or charge at work, though our office is only partially open, so not many actually charging there.
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By the time EVs or their counterparts become commonplace the charging at home problem probably won't exist. You manage at home without a petrol or diesel pump don't you? EV batteries are running for longer, regeneration is improving. There are various ideas coming along now that will solve home charging problems.
When ICE cars were first developed there was a similar challenge, no fuel available, not many surfaced roads either!
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Ooh - where was that posted?
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I've just got around to watching Guy Martin's run to JOG .... I'm not sure why you say he didn't plan the journey. His first stop was calculated on the original projected range but the battery was 'empty' way, way before hand, and when he tried to re-charge, he had problems with the charger (and it turned out that everyone else had had problems with it too..
Who tries to drive 1100 miles in 24hrs? ... Probably very few of us, but the option to do so with an ICE is there if you wanted to.
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The reason I say he didn’t plan was 2 fold. 1) would you plan to drive a brand new petrol car at its advertised 56mph efficiency at 70mph for the distance delivered by the entirety of its fuel tank before refuelling? That’s the equivalent of what he did in the EV.
2) as you point out - it turned out that the charger he visited had already had problems. If he had planned, he would have know that before he left using the same tool that told him there was a problem.
There are also tools (like A better route planner) that will look at the real world range of your car, and the terrain, and then speed you plan to drive at, and tell you where to charge for best results. It’s not hard.
Can you do a 1100 mile journey in an EV in 24 hours. Sure - just plan it properly…
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The repair speed, if an EV sustains an electrical fault, must be more acceptable. For example, my nephew has been told he won't see his £70,000 Jaguar E Pace for about six weeks whilst they sort out his charging problem. At present it appears that there is a great shortage of trained technicians who have to go from dealer to dealer assessing problems then ordering parts and returning at a later date to carry out the work. Nephew isn't a happy bunny !
Just an update from my post, above, of 6th August. My nephew is no nearer to getting his iPace back. The engineer has been to look at the car, shrugged his shoulders and said he doesn't know what's wrong. The next step is to connect the car (online) to the Jaguar factory at Gaydon to try to find the problem. Again, they don't know when this will be. He has to wait his turn in the queue. It depends on when the engineer can get back to the dealers where the car is languishing and when Gaydon can run the diagnostic test. Even less of a happy bunny now.
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While I feel for your nephew, please don't think that the terrible experience that he has clearly had with his I-Pace is indicative of all EVs. I know my experience with issues in cars has been very different between cars and manufacturers.
In a Chrysler Grand Voyager, I had a climate control issue that the dealer couldn't resolve in the entire 5 years I had the car, despite replacing all the elements associated with the climate system.
On the flip side, my EV had a routine software update while having a minor cosmetic issue fixed by my local dealer. The software update failed when one of the cameras in the car rejected it. They identified that root cause inside 24 hours, had a new camera dispatched from Sweden that day and fitted it and returned the car the day the camera arrived (which was slow due to import issues) . In the mean time they put me in an equivalent EV as a courtesy at zero cost to me.
As with all issues in cars - your experience is as much to do with the dealer and manufacturer as it is with the technology involved.
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Just an update from my post, above, of 6th August. My nephew is no nearer to getting his iPace back. The engineer has been to look at the car, shrugged his shoulders and said he doesn't know what's wrong. The next step is to connect the car (online) to the Jaguar factory at Gaydon to try to find the problem. Again, they don't know when this will be. He has to wait his turn in the queue. It depends on when the engineer can get back to the dealers where the car is languishing and when Gaydon can run the diagnostic test. Even less of a happy bunny now.
Further to the above post from 24th August and my original from 6th August, my nephew is no nearer getting his i Pace back from the garage. It has now been with them longer than he has owned it. They still don't know what the problem is but acknowledge that there is a problem.
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We have had four EV charging points installed in the car park at our local shopping parade,
When i went for our paper there was a queue this morning of EVs and Hibrids waiting to use them ,as only one was working ,three had gone down and had been so most of the week a driver told me,
Not helpfull as the family who in our road have 5 vehicles have just got 1 EV and two hibrids (all leased or company cars
Ps i am still waiting for a reply from KIA, who want me to exchange our Sportage diesel auto for the new EV6 ,of what sort of MPC can i expect in real world driving towing our 1300kg caravan
have sent two Emails and have just had auto recieved replys
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We have had four EV charging points installed in the car park at our local shopping parade,
It amused me at the P&R Canterbury, They had maybe 6 or more charging points. Seemed a bit 'pointless' as first arrivals would have been those working in Canterbury and the same vehicles would occupy the points until the owners returned from work.
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