Laika Kreos
For benefit of Emily's Dad (and any other interested party) the Laika Kreos is a terrific range of MH, some coachbuilt and some A-Classes, all built the Fiat base with Ak-Ko chassis.
they are an Italian company owned by the Hymer group and in their portfolio of brands rank equal 2nd (with Hymer) and only below Neismann + Bischoff.
they are very well built, double floors, great insulation, large water tanks etc and offer the Hymer group some Italian design flair to sit alongside the brand's quality image.
the Fiat base (with revisions) has certainly been around for a long time (mid/late 2006) and was way ahead of its time then, hence such a large following and loyalty with a huge range of converters using it.
the recent addition of a 9-speed torque converter gearbox has move things along and Fiat have just released thier latest electronic-style dashboard/interior revisions.
the unit remains a very popular choice with converters and buyers, ive had four and would have no qualms about another (auto, revised interior..) next time.
i looked very hard indeed at a couple of Laikas before settling on our previous van six years ago. would look again perhaps at next swap.
not cheap, but a great quality MH brand who now produce some PVC versions.
Comments
-
And to clarify, it is not an expensive Fiat but an expensive conversion, although not unduly so by some standards.
0 -
4000 series around £65k
5000 series another £10k
7000 (A class) series £85k ish depending on spec
8000 (A class) series £95-100k depending on options...
0 -
I endorse BB’s comments on Fiat MH bases and engines. We too are on our 4th Motorhome with a Fiat base/engine. With two trips to Europe pa we average about 10k miles per year and have never had any problems with the Fiat units in over 15 years. The perception that Fiat engines are unreliable is a fallacy.
0 -
We have a Burstner Grand Panorama i920 next to us having to stayation so have found work in UK ,as they live in it and cannot get back to Spain. they do say in conversations we have had these last few days they have been here , that it is just not true vehicles from Europe are any more reliable or better made than UK especially the Bailey models
They in the 6 years of ownership have had internal leaks where there was not even some pipe work. they spent all yesterday evening repairing another water leak that had flooded the "garage" and all that was stored at floor level,
good job he and his OH are qualified plumbers ,the worst they had was when the pipe from the engine that was to heat the vehicle when engine running fractured and nearly caused the engine to seize as they have found non of the pipework is adequate or properly fixed which causes fractures with constant vibration when travelling as he says Fix it Again ,Tomorrow, applies to the whole vehicle
0 -
Burstner sits pretty mid-range in the Hymer hierarchy. the Panorama hasnt been made for a while, in the main due to the vast (potential replacement) expense of its USP.....that enormous windscreen.
have you actually been in a Laika...or a N+B, Frankia, Carthago, Morelo, Concorde etc....
no better than a Bailey? a moot point, perhaps.
Bailey are certainly decent enough vans, but like most are built at the level reflecting their retail price.
ive seen a video of the Bailey factory 'construction' process.
have a look at one similar from Morelo and youll start to get some idea why these things cost such a lot more...
their production line is so sophisticated it can have a left hand drive vehicle followed by a right hand drive vehicle (and uk handed bodywork) and any number of variable chassis and conversion extras and modifications on successive vehicles.
they build mostly on Iveco and, not being happy that the standard driving position delivered what Morelo wanted in their overall design, it was changed completely to suit the conversion...obviously at huge expense, but they felt this was what was needed....
their plumbing, electrics, heating systems (more than one), aircon and chassis/suspension mods go so far beyond anything Bailey could consider offering where they are in the market.
'better' is a very subjective word.....however, I'll stick my neck out and suggest a Morelo might be 'better' built than a Bailey.
...but thats just my opinion.
in other areas of the market (notwithstanding the Burstner owner...and the Hymer chap you met a while back) the Fiat still has a pretty darn good reputation and vastly outstrips any other base vehicle on numbers for good reason.
0 -
The Sevel range of base vehicles is the cheap end of the base vehicle market which helps pricing the finished article, and they also cater with their range of cabs,? to attract. converters
The comment about Bailey came from the Burstner owners, if Bailey made a bigger more live in LV they would seriously think about getting one ,and it would also probably be much cheaper than what they have
0 -
I know it's luck of the draw but we had an early Fiat X250, a Merc Sprinter, a Pug Boxer X290 and now a Fiat X290. The Sprinter was the best of the bunch in every way, the Pug was faultless, the early Fiat was a pig and the current one developed an engine warning light issue just 30 mins after taking delivery of it. It’s too soon to say whether it will yet be forgiven but its auto box may well prove to be its saving grace .
The Sevel offerings are cheaper than, say, Sprinters and Sevel accommodate the MH market by supplying various cab chassis versions, some suited to taking Alko chassis extensions, and easily converted panel vans and mini buses. Consequently, we're not given a lot of choice of base vehicles by the converters. If we were, I would happily pay the extra £10k or so to have another Sprinter.
0 -
the further up market you go, the more options you can have...Merc (Sprinter, Artego), Iveco, Fiat tag axle, MAN etc...
eg you can have the same model Chic E line on Merc (FWD), fiat tag FWD or Iveco RWD.
at this level, chassis brands and serious hardware options are picked and ticked just like the sofa colour in a Swift..
0 -
Such choices aren't available on simple smaller PVCs with conventional UK layouts.
It's not a case of expense or not wishing to go upmarket for me but a matter of finding the right vehicle and the options are limited.
1 -
@BoleroBoy ... the Panorama hasnt been made for a while, in the main due to the vast (potential replacement) expense of its USP.....that enormous windscreen.
I guess that's the one I saw at Manchester a few years back on the EmmBee stand. I was in their shop a little while after and mentioned this particular £100k MH .... he reckoned the screen for it was £10 000! 😲😲😲😲
1 -
fab concept....A-class vans have 'panoramic' views anyway (driving and lounging) but Burstner wanted to take things a stage further...terrific concept but mightily expensive to implement and replace if problems.
the Kreos has a 'distinctive' A class cab, which gives it a bit of individuality. i would have though anyone buying one would be happy with it, Fiat base included.
0 -
Our exact Hymer MH is also available with a Mercedes engine. Although if we had gone for it, not only would we have had to wait a considerable time, as there was not one available. It’s extra weight would have meant it was not practical to run at 3.5 tonnes, which I wanted. Oh it was 10 / 12K more expensive.
0 -
Steve, thats interesting. I thought Hymer had developed a special 'superlight' lightweight chassis (SLC?) to work with the latest Merc...
im not sure of the Sevel 'contractual arrangements' between Fiat and PSA, but it seems you still cant get the latest 9-speeder on Citröen Jumper/Relay nor on a Peugeot Boxer.
i dont know if its 'corporate/policy/marketing/political' thats the issue or just that it only fits the Fiat engine not the PSA ones.
0 -
In Steve's example I would have paid the extra for the Merc, although the weight issue would need consideration.
The TC auto box is only available on the Fiat and that's the only reason I have a Fiat. I suspect it is a commercial decision as, within the vehicle range as a whole, there are some smaller vans and van derived cars where auto can only be had on Peugeot/Citroën and not Fiat. It's as if there is an attempt to spread business across the brands. Whether this will continue in future is anyone's guess.
0 -
Things have moved on a lot since back then. Fiat and PSA have now merged.
0 -
I don't really care, tbh🤷♂️
0 -
I should have perhaps said was BB. I must admit to not keeping up with the latest developments. If a similarly weighted Merc was available at the time, we would probably have gone for it. We have every intention that this will be the only MH we ever buy.
1 -
...to return (vaguely) to the OP...by pure coincidence a Laika A-class crossed the Henley Bridge just as i was crossing the road earlier today.
0 -
...and i also note the 8000 series is now available on Iveco (for much improved payload over Merc/Fiat...upto 6.2-6.7t without the need for a tag axle) which takes things up another notch giving it an option not available on N+B and looks like its being placed in direct competition with Carthargo S Plus which has been on Iveco for a good few years...this also allows for their smooth multi speed slush box.
we are now getting into serious money...
i just trawled through their 120 page price list but failed dismally to find the price before extas...many packs, many pages of baffling add ons etc (with prices) but no starting point....too subtle for me....
however, a fully loaded Carthago S Plus on Iveco is likely to be around £175k-£200k.
How close the Laika is to this i cant say, but moving to Iveco is a drive up market. at this level, its perfectly possible to spend well over £50k on 'extras'.
0 -
new Fiat Ducato details released
following on from the new 9 speeder auto and snaps of new digital dash, a few more details from the MMM website.
0
