Thinking about getting a Safefill cylinder
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gomto the Flogas website, you can register there. many of their pumps are the 'normal' ones we see at supermarkets etc, but there are a number which can only be used by account holders.
i had to speak to them recently, they are very helpful.
good luck.
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I think Flogas is the link
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Struggled with it a bit but finally found Flogas Autogas Key Sites. You then have to email Customerservice.enquiries@flogas.co.uk and request an application form.
I did also glean some more info. Like Calor, Flogas is experiencing a severe shortage of new cylinders. Because of this they are not starting any new cylinder accounts. If you don't have a cylinder to exchange then you will not get a new one. Apparently people buying gas BBQ's are having to take them back because they can't get a cylinder. This shortage is also causing problems in other sectors of the market including LV's.
Now anyone want a 6kg Calor Propane bottle about two thirds full make me an offer I can't refuse
. PS. Thanks Bill, your link was most helpful.
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Hi BB, I can see your point re the clubs apparent attitude but, as a non LPG system/Safefill user, can see that it appears to be something that will appeal to a relatively small number.
Cornwall is perhaps poor example however, as that’s where I am, I have, on a number of occasions, looked at availability and prices. Yesterday 4 of 6 outlets had no LPG available and the prices were 79p/litre plus.
In what appears to be a rapidly shrinking supply system I can’t see any point, unless you use a lot of gas and have a reliable source, in going the Safefill route, for me or the club.
We are onsite with friends who have an Autotrail with a Gaslow system and his three closest LPG pumps, he lives near Basingstoke, have all closed and he now feels he must fill whenever he sees a pump.
I looked at prices for LPG cylinders yesterday, as reported very short supplies, and my 10kg Gaslight will be £48 to change but at the moment the nearest pump is over 60 miles away and charges 99p/litre so, for me there is no convenience and little cost savings.
Its still a great idea but having decided it was not for me back in 2016 nothing I have seen will be changing my mind anytime soon.
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Should have said that for anyone in Cornwall needing a cylinder Logan’s Logs near Wadebridge had supplies yesterday of 10 kg Gaslight-£48, 6kg propane clip on-£31 and 11kg propane-£43.
Their website shows availability but not prices.
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Yes, that’s what I meant but used a few more words!
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Wow! That’s dear. We have no mains gas at home so the Flogas man has just brought some fresh supplies to the house. 19kg for £29 each - including VAT and free delivery. They are just a bit big and heavy for a caravan though the Irish travellers use them.
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Allan/Allan of course, youre both correct!
many factors go into making the decision to move to refillables or not and usage has to be at the top of the list....always EHU will negate a large gas demand. add in sparce availability and its not on the wish list.
of course, you are both caravanners who always use sites (and with ehu) whereas others (mainly MHers) might use aires or other 'non serviced' locations along with non-ehu CLs and temporary holiday sites where gas (and solar/12v) will be the primary power sources.
relying on bottled gas (for daily showers, bbq, cooking etc) will start to become pretty expensive as stays lengthen during the summer time.
then there are those who tour 'impromptu' abroad where cylinders arent exchangable and one either has to carry sufficient gas for the whole trip (3 months?) or find a way to get more while away...
the easiest way is to have refillables, where only a small adaptor is required to enable pump use all over europe...
so different usage patterns might steer folk in different directions and while we (hope to) tour europe extensively the flexibility we get with refillables there outweighs any 'potential issues' in the UK with supply.
While im lucky to have a fill point close by, i think its ok to check ones route alongside the well known apps to verify availability.
one flexible way to to get the best of both worlds is to have one refillable bottle and one exchange one...see a fill point, top up....gas running down, switch to exchange bottle...
when in Spain my 2nd bottle is a large Repsol one which can be exchanged everywhere.....sites, petrol stations etc, and is as cheap as LPG.
France not a problem at the moment.
it's horses for course, ive had refillable for 10 years and, for our usage type/volume its been great.
at least i dont flinch when paying as im sure i would with a large Calor exchange.....ouch!
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I didn’t get the refillable system in our MH installed to save money, more to save my back. However, given the amount of gas we have used, even though we generally use EHU sites, I think it might. The cylinders have a 10 year life, before they need testing and possibly replacing. In that time I am sure I will at least break even. It’s surprising how much gas is used by the fridge / freezer, if you are parked up visiting somewhere or shopping for food. Plus if we can get back to France, add in a few non EHU Aires and it increases even more. The equation would be even more in favour of saving money, if I had been starting from scratch, rather than having two Calor 6kg which I gave away.
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agreed Steve, i didnt do it for money, more the fact that 3/4 of our touring is generally overseas a pair of Calors wouldnt be of much use once expired.
depending on the type of 'deal', some long stay continental sites charge for electric seperately and this can be quite expensive when compared to the usually cheap gas (pumped or bottled).
with solar taking care of ipad/phone charging, tv, water pump, heating fan etc, along with gas for kettle, water heating etc, leccy use can be kept to a minimum along with cheap as chips gas.
returning from western Portugal last time 'over' we had many one/two night impromtu stops along the Algarve and southern/eastern Spain where we had no need for electric but did for gas (hot water, cooking).
not for everyone but the 'combo' of one 11kg Gaslow and a 2nd slot for the large Repsol works for us for our winter tours.
if we found problems with LPG in France, and had a long Autumn stint planned there, id carry a French bottle in lieu of the Repsol.
similarly, if we get confined to UK for whatever reason, that slot could take a large Calor for flexibility here.
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Just as an interlude in this discussion, if anyone wants to see how gas cylinders are manufactured have a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KGG3sIEkIY
David
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safefill (or similar) are also very popular with caravanners using THS sites where along with their (often external folding) solar panels they enjoy lengthy stays with the convenience of popping out in the car for a top up.
as with my 'compromise' system above, long stayers may also carry an exchange Calor if LPG not close by.
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I've now got 3 x 10kg Safefill bottles. One for the caravan, one for the BBQ and one for the Patio heater. I can swap them around a bit so when filling often I have two empty and one part-full.
There's a lot of noise about LPG becoming more difficult to procure but we have about 5 petrol stations within 20 mins drive all providing LPG and I haven't had a single refusal in the UK or mainland Europe.
Given in East Devon, I can fill a 10kg Safefill for about £12, and the garage nearby want £50 to SWAP a 13kg Patio gas, it's really not a difficult decision.
Personally, I'd like to see Calor investigated for price gouging...
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They have used their market dominance to try and stifle competition. The name is so ubiquitous for LPG that consumers just buy a Calor cylinder without thinking about alternatives. Anyone just starting out would be crazy not to go for a refillable. Over their touring lifetime, it will save them a fortune.
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"There's a lot of noise about LPG becoming more difficult to procure but we have about 5 petrol stations within 20 mins drive all providing LPG and I haven't had a single refusal in the UK or mainland Europe."
Hi, I looked at Safefill and decided against it due to the low number of fill points in my area-Cornwall.
I don't know where you are in Devon but a check this morning on mylpg.eu and filllpg.co.uk shows that in Cornwall there are, respectively, 5 pumps locations with LPG unavailable at 4 and 7 locations with LPG unavailable at 6.
I considered Safefill as friends have Gaslow systems but, for me, and I suspect an increasing number of others, there is no gain in convenience or costs unless using large volumes and have a fill point that does not involve additional travel.
For those that do it may well still be effective but, at £180 a cylinder and dwindling supplies its gone from a 'maybe' to a 'extremely unlikely'.
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As well as the post from Allanandjean I would add a fresh warning for anyone coming down the A30 Cornwall and looking for LPG. The websites list Greenaways garage at Launceston as a possible source of supply - but just don’t even try to get to their pumps with a full sized motorhome, much less a car/caravan outfit, to drive through the town, to get on to their cramped forecourt, and then somehow to do a U turn to get back to the A30. Not possible.
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investing in a different tech/system is always going to be a balance between cost/usage/availability...
for those who 'always' camp on sites with EHU, gas usage will be low, very low...buying it dear from Calor hurts, but not very often....
at the other end of the scale is the THS site user, who is there for weeks at a time relying on solar and gas, add in some other impromptu touring stops and the usage rises dramatically....
do that impromptu stopping abroad where its far easier and its pretty certain that LPG availability also increases.
i wouldnt expect an 'ehu only' caravanner who would also never just pull in for a couple of impromptu nights somewhere to even thinking of refillables, the 'value' equation is all wrong.
however, for us its a no brainer the other way...
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Hi BB, as you say it suits you to have it so thats great but it is quite usual to see refillables touted as THE answer when, as you say, that may not be the case.
I take the mix and match route, as you, but with a Gaslight 10kg and a Flogas 6kg. The 6kg is my BBQ supply, in the van for positioning flexibility, and at home and the Gaslight stays in the van.
Our MH buddies have Gaslow and he now has to resort to a trip down the M3 to Fleet services as 3 LPG pumps near him have all closed.
As an added consideration, if I was ever to consider weeks on end on non EHU sites I would soon be made aware this was not a realistic option!
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im not sure where your pals live but id be using the M3 station if I was perhaps heading SW or returning to home NE....but for travelling, say, north or east id be looking for other outlets along those routes...
like diesel, there are other outlets on other routes and its not imperative to get gas from the same place prior to the start of a journey.
i do have an open Esso LPG station which is on a nearby major road, so it is easy for me to start most of my trips (South, East, West) with a full tank.
if i knew my 'next trip' was going to be North, id fill on the way home at the Esso station.
maybe, if a caravanner is heading off to just one, say two week, destination then any large deviation for LPG might be annoying, whereas our tours (especially in a normal uk Summer where we are using THS sites dotted all over) we dont always have a set route in mind and this might lead to a bit more flexibility if LPG supplies appear thin...
my point about the two cylinder flexibility, which in the uk (if i were here permanently) would be one Gaslow 11kg and one large Calor allowing for swaps at sites or top ups on the road..
my gas Cadac uses small cannisters, i carry a couple of spare ones. i also have an outdoor leccy 'hot plate' so flexible there for EHU and non EHU sites.
like you, we also love full fat top class sites (obviously) with EHU, but we also make good use of the C&CC THS sites which are usually situated very close to town centres. here we would be using more LPG.
does your last para mean your OH 'would rather not....?'.
its funny, ive always found the tea tastes the same whether the water is boiled in an electric kettle or with a gas one on the hob. similarly, the shower feels the same whether the Combi heated the water with electric or gas. my iphone/ipad seem to charge/work identically from the 12v socket whether that power gets to the battery from a mains charger or solar panel, and TBH the heating actually works better on gas than on electric.
whats not to like? go on, you know you want to
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Just to update. Some 2 months after ordering, my Safefill cylinder arrived on Friday - so yes, they are still alive and well. I filled it with a restricted first fill 10 litres at my local Morrisons for £5.80 or so.
I have also now received my Flogas self service key. The outlets do appear very restricted but every little helps.
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KR, are you also keeping an exchange bottle with you? it will give you great flexibility when either LPG or swaps are 'tricky' in the area you are touring.
bu all means use the Safefill as much as possible, but a Calor will give your system resilience...
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Yes, I still have 2 Calor Lites one of which is full and the other less so. I will be touring with a full Safefill and and 1 Calor Lite. Initially my stays will be limited to 4-5 days as I have 2 100AH batteries (spare in car) and no solar panel. I think the ultimate length of stay will be determined by the lack of a hair dryer for 'er indoors.
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Unquestionably, Safefill bottles have been unavailable for several months, with an imported batch having arrived during the last four weeks. It seems that they have all? been bought via prior orders.
Unquestionably the number of garages selling LPG has reduced.
Unquestionably, Calor have let Calorlite users down, as they become increasingly difficult to source. Let’s remember that we paid extra for Lites over traditional 6kg bottles.
It’s a fact that an empty 7.5kg Safefill bottle weighs less than an empty 6kg Calorlite.
As to the future - as more motorists ‘go electric’ forecourt LPG sales will reduce, leading to further outlet closures. If left without serious protest, Calor will continue to treat their customers with contempt.
Whether the current increase in UK based holidays will be sustained as COVID vaccinations reopen the door to foreign flights, can only be guessed at. Hedging your bets with a Calor/ refillable hybrid, as many on this forum have done, makes sense to me, while the jury is out. Long term, I suspect that forecourts selling LPG will become so few and far between, that they’ll become impractical, accelerating closures. Hopefully someone, somewhere, will mount an effective challenge to Calor. We can all dream.
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"Hopefully someone, somewhere, will mount an effective challenge to Calor. We can all dream."
BP did, particularly with their Gas lights, but few other users either realised this or opted to change. Their collaboration with the then Homebase strangled the retail network, and perhaps accounted for the lack of adoption and ultimate "failure" in that original venture.
Much has changed with Homebase's change of ownership, and the Flo-gas purchase of the product. IMO it is an extremely practical alternative to Calor's leisure range.
Along with this, Flo-gas has expanded its retail outlets so its 6 kg steel bottles have become widely available, making it an alternative to Calor's physically identical 6 kg bottles.
Though, presently Flo-gas along with Calor are not offering "new" rentals, but I am having no trouble getting refills for my 6 & 11 kg Flo-gas bottles or my 10 kg Gaslights.
IMO the "jury is not out" on the forecourt demise of LPG, it is well underway. With no new domestic cars being sold with factory fit LPG systems, it can only be a matter of time, probably very short before all forecourt LPG pumps are history. Forecourt space is so expensive, few, if any, major retailers are going to carry on for the small turnover of the camper taking a few kgs, the only hope is where a healthy converted taxi market exists.
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It reminds me of that famous comment by the receptionist in " Trains, Planes and Automobiles" when a frustrated Steve Martin can't find his car!!!!
We seem to be moving to a possible situation where the supply of gas for caravans and motorhomes will become even more expensive for exchange cylinders and the prospect of it becoming more difficult to fill up refillable cylinders. I just don't think anyone from our hobby is going to be on the winning side?
David
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IMO the "jury is not out" on the forecourt demise of LPG, it is well underway. With no new domestic cars being sold with factory fit LPG systems, it can only be a matter of time, probably very short before all forecourt LPG pumps are history. Forecourt space is so expensive, few, if any, major retailers are going to carry on for the small turnover of the camper taking a few kgs, the only hope is where a healthy converted taxi market exists.
We filled up at both LPG and diesel at Morrison’s in Doncaster recently. The lady in the kiosk said it gets a lot of use by RV’s. If many of these also fill with fuel and restock provisions in the adjacent supermarket, I would think it far from certain that they won’t consider the LPG pump worthwhile. Especially as it’s currently a very reasonable 58p per litre, so they could be charging more if they wanted. Other nearby outlets are 10p or more expensive a litre.
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