MRO over weight compares to the plated MRO
Hi everyone,
Been in the caravan game for around 3 years now. Currently have a Swift Super 6DB. Plated MRO 1541kg with uprated MTPLM of 1800kg. I was a little nervous about having my awning in the van (40kg) as well as the AWD motor mover so thought the safe bet was to go to a weigh bridge. With only a few personal belongings on board the van weighed a heavy 1880kg! I could not believe this. The math did not work with what was on board. I removed the heavy articles which meant now there were only pots and pans etc still on and 1 LPG bottle. The van now weighed 1820kg. Needless to say I was at a loss for words. With only the motor mover as the last large item I was still overweight.
I went home, removed the mover and completely emptied the van to the same state as collection from the dealer new. Returned to the weighbridge and now my empty dry weight was 1600kg. Still 59kg over the stated MRO.
Has anyone ever come across something like this as I'm struggling to get anywhere with either Swift or my dealer.
Many thanks.
Comments
-
I would check the manufacturer MRO tolerance it could be +/- 5 %. This compounded withe weighbridge tolerance could account for your findings. Ask to see the latest weighbridge calibration to see actual tolerance. Some weighbridges state +/-50kg as a general tolerance but calibrate to less than 10kg.
0 -
Thanks for your reply.
I am currently trying to get this information from Swift but they seem to be holding it close to their chest. My annoyance is that I was not informed of such a large tolerance in MRO at the time of purchase. If this is the case and my van does weigh 60kg more than stated and within their tolerance, I can no longer have my motor mover on if I want to take anything on holiday with me. Seems a bit of a swizz to me.
0 -
For a start, the MRO is not a plated value. What you call a "plate" is nothing more than a consumer information label of no legal significance. The statutory plate that displays legally required weights (which do not include MRO) is elsewhere on the caravan.
Secondly, the quoted MRO is not specific to your caravan. It is the weight of the caravan that the manufacturer submitted for type approval and that may have been less fully equipped.
For that reason, the 5% tolerance mentioned above is largely irrelevant because it would only apply to a caravan with exactly the same specification as the one submitted for type approval.
Consequently, the MRO figure cannot be regarded as anything more than a rough guide. The 59kg measured on a weighbridge over the stated MRO comes as no surprise.
The actual unladen weight of the caravan in question is only documented as item 13.2 in the Certificate of Conformity, but in the UK that certificate is seldom passed on to the buyer because it is only needed in those countries where the caravan is registered as a vehicle in its own right.
0 -
Good morning Lutz,
Thank you for your detailed reply. You seem to have a good grasp of this issue. I completely agree that if they have put the weight forward as a fleet weight then yes my particular van could be under or over. As mine is over by 59kg that means my payload has reduced by 59kg. Regardless of what the MRO out the factory was, 1800kg is my absolute max. As stated, I have had to remove the motor mover in order to get under this weight, otherwise I wouldn't be able to take anything away in the van. I'm at a loss as my next move. When I purchased the van there was no mention of possible 60kg tolerances in weight.
Someone from Swift has actually stated that my van was 1520-1530kg out the factory, which makes the discrepancy even greater.
Ay advice will be greatly received
1 -
Sorry about your problem but most caravan dealers have a Reich Caravan Weight Control apparatus and if I were buying from them I would want them to weigh the van before I signed the cheque.
0 -
MRO is defined as the weight of the vehicle with "standard equipment in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications". It is up to the manufacturer to decide what he means by standard equipment, but it would certainly not include any factory-fitted optional extras. MRO may not even be affected if, during the course of the model run, the manufacturer adds features which were not standard at the time of type approval. He may declare them as mandatory options, thereby getting around the need to amend type approval documentation.
0 -
And this is where my questions began. It's a dealer exclusive model. They're saying the MRO takes into account their extras that were factory fitted. Swift say the same. I really have run out of ideas on how to proceed. The van is useless at carrying anything with the mover on, and without it on, I have a very expensive but if kit sitting in the garage
0 -
I would guess that mover/battery/gas will swallow about 150Kg of your available 200Kg. Having to take your mover off to get below the MPTLM suggests that you still have a lot of "stuff" in your van. Either way, the payload allowance for what, presumably, is a big van is a bit parsimonious.
My Abbey 470 had a 230Kg payload and I managed to use most of that without a great deal of difficulty.
0 -
I think the main question here is whether the van, as sold off the forecourt, was fit for purpose. If you consider the answer to that to be 'no', CK, I suggest you contact the club's legal team for guidance on the way forward.
If the answer is 'yes', then maybe the technical team can help. For instance, at a guess, it may be possible to uprate the MTPLM.
0 -
I feel you do need expert help with this.
Good luck👍
0 -
If it is a dealer exclusive model, including features that are not part of the basic model, then there is no way that the MRO includes the weight of such extra features. To me, "dealer exclusive" implies that it includes non-standard equipment not covered by the definition of MRO. It certainly would not be identical to the caravan that was submitted for type approval.
It would be interesting to see the Certificate of Conformity. Within that document, the manufacturer has the option of quoting a range of MRO's to cover all eventualities, whereas the label by the door is only quoting the lowest figure. It would also be interesting to see what the actual weight quoted under item 13.2 says in that certificate because that should take into account factory-fitted dealer exclusive features.
0 -
Hi Lutz. The Swift technical handbook for a standard Sprite Super Quattro 6DB states MRO of 1475kg Inc tolerance. So the fact my door sticker says 1541kg, I would have to assume that the dealer extras have been added to the original MRO. (Swift have replied to an email stating my van weighed between 1520-1530kg leaving the factory. No proof where this figure came from.)
It's a very confusing and annoying situation. I'm currently in Cayton Bay and have looked at a few other twin axles Swift's for comparison. An Eccles 645 has an upgraded MTPLM of 2000kg. Do you know if this is due to a stronger Al-Ko chassis or are they all the same across the board?
There are many questions I need to raise tomorrow with both the dealer and Swift.
0 -
Hi CK, sorry to hear of your issue but looking at what you have said you mention 'the mover but in the OP mention the 'AWD motor mover' so just wondering, as its a twin axle, do you have two movers fitted?
Only asking as this would have quite an impact on the available margins and, even assuming all the other possible issues, licence categories, tow car abilities etc, are OK, difficult to see a way around it with this van.
As mentioned by TW seems you need some advice, preferably before you continue discussions with the dealer/Swift.
0 -
Hi. Yes it's a twin axle with 2 sets of movers. Total weight is 74kg. I knew this when purchasing the van hence the MTPLM upgrade. After calculating clothing etc plus mover I thought I had around 185kgs remaining. Take off our 96kg of items we need and we should have 89 available. 40kg for the awning meant 49 for clothing and food etc. But I'm 60kg heavier to start so I'm stuck.
0 -
We have a Swift Group van, a 2008 Sterling Eccles Searcher, twin axle, side fixed double, end shower room. We planned for a Mover, air conditioning, a roll out Fiamma, and another 10 Kg of extras, plus a twin 6kg fixed Gaslow system, so we upgraded the original 1815 kg MTPLM to 1900 kg giving a payload of 345kg, which on older vans has to cover everything including gas.
We only have a single wheel Truma TE mover as that does what we need and weighs just over 30kg. The air con is also 30kg and the Fiamma 15kg.
If I remember correctly, the tolerance quoted by Swift was +/- 4%, if yours is similar then your van could easily be around 60kg heavier than the advertised MIRO and still be within what is stated.
Over the years we no doubt added a few more bits and pieces, and we do carry spares and tools on our trips, though tools travel in the car. We had owned the van for a while before we got around to weighing it fully loaded, and were surprised to find it came in at 1940 kg! I am pretty sure it must have been at the top end of the tolerance when new.
We do not carry the big heavy table, no longer have the Fiamma on the van as it "expired", and make sure all heavy things travel in the car, so are below our plated 1900kg and have plenty of weight to carry all our kitchen and bathroom essentials, plus bedding and up to 4 weeks of clothes.
If you cannot carry those sort of things, then I would agree that that is very poor, adding 74kg with the 4 wheel mover is possibly too big an ask, as the original payload allowed is not exactly generous.
How does the weight of what you are carrying add up? Something sounds wrong, more than the 59 kg extra on the MIRO. You should still have 200kg to use, which of course also has to cover the battery and the mover.
What is included in the 96kg of essentials?
0 -
Hi. The "essentials" are everything you would imagine. Kettle, water/waste barrels, table and chairs etc.
We should've been able to take everything with the mover and awning with 259kg available from MRO, but we're down to 200kg. I would've accepted to move something to the car or lose something but 59kg is a lot to lose through a tolerance.
0 -
I fear if I do not get a reasonable response, explaining the weight difference and what they intend to do about it (either increase MTPLM if possible or refund the mover), then this will have to be the way forward. I admit, I did not know nor was I told, that caravans had such a high tolerance in MRO from the factory. This is basically hiding the truth on the salesman's part by telling me it could have 259kg payload with the increase MTPLM. I am disgusted with how my queries are being dealt with so far. No mention from anyone regarding the safety aspect of being overweight, but instead flippant comments of "well I've never known anyone to get pulled over onto a weighbridge."
To me that is dangerous and the sales person has no concept of what an MTPLM is actually there for.
I appreciate everyone's input on this matter so far, it's given me a clearer picture of the industry as a whole. My profession requires me to be tolerance levels of near zero. No room for mistakes when it comes to loading. This is why I am kicking up a stink about this. I am at a loss to believe that there are thousands of caravans out there on UK roads more than likely overweight because people are taking the MRO as gospel as I had for the last 3 years.
0 -
Based on the information that you have provided it would appear that the caravan manufacturer has had the dealer special specifically type approved or else the MRO would be the same as for the standard model.
To my knowledge, no UK manufacturer fits heavier duty chassis to weight uprated caravans. They just make full use of the load carrying capacity of the existing chassis if they have not already done so. If heavier duty chassis were used then the cost of the upgrade would be much more than what it is. Besides, fitment of heavier duty chassis would also have to be covered by new type approval, or at least an amendment to existing type approval.
Continental manufacturers, on the other hand, do fit other chassis because they nearly always specify MTPLM's at the axle load limit, so any upgrade will necessarily involve technical modifications to the chassis. Their upgrades are often quite substantial and would not otherwise be possible without fitment of bigger brakes and heavier duty axles, for example. Depending on the degree of the upgrade, the cost to the customer may be as much as £500 or even more, to cover changes to the chassis.
0 -
Was your caravan manufactured before type approval came into force in 2014? If not, there must be another plate somewhere on the caravan which displays both the axle load limit and the MTPLM on the same plate. It must also specify the maximum allowable noseweight.
0 -
I am not sure that you should expect to carry all those items in the van.
There are usually only the 2 of us when we go away, but occasionally we may have my sister with us, or our daughter, so we have plenty of space in the car for all sorts of things, so we operate a general rule that if it is used in the van it travels in the van, if it is for outside it goes in the car.
The Wastemaster is the only exception, it fits neatly in the front locker, is not heavy, so gets to travel there. Awning (lightweight canopy type) is in the car, as is Aquaroll, levelling boards, outside table and chairs, Alko locks and hitch lock, cool box for drinks and shopping, some tinned food for emergencies, cameras, i-pads etc etc, jack, torque wrench and all other tools, pegs, heavy hammer........trying to think what else!
The floor of the van is always clear and ready to use for lunch stops.
We have far more space in the van than we could fill with "stuff", without being overweight, especially under the bed.
It is very easy to accumulate things in the van, we have a cull after each trip out, and an annual one to remove things we find we have not used.
Yes, I agree re this tolerance business, I also think that payloads are far too small these days.
0 -
The Swift "plate" pictured in that link is not a legal plate because it doesn't comply with the regulations. It is nothing more than a consumer information label.
The statutory plate must, in addition to the MTPLM. display the maximum allowable axle load and the permissible noseweight. Any further information, such as the MRO, must be clearly separated from the legally required details.
The Elddis plate further down in the link is correct because it does clearly separate legal requirements from further consumer information.
0 -
The reality is there are thousands and thousands of caravans on the road every year hopelessly overloaded because the owners don’t care or don’t know and despite so much of their time spent on facetwit never seem to consider researching in the way they might to keep up with football or Kardashians or other inconsequential twaddle. You only have to look at what some unload on arrival to see the outfit is overweight without checking on any scales. I also think you are being a bit ambitious with your loading, an awning is likely to be upwards of 30kg, a t/a mover 60kg and so on. Payload is already reduced by 90kg....... We had a close relative of your van, a dealer special Quattro EW with a stated MIRO around 1530kg (the non dealer version was about 1470). I had it weigh bridge checked with everything loaded except food and some clothing. Came in at 1760kg which just crept under the 1800kg plating i had upgraded. A bit of allowance for weighbridge tolerance, culling of equipement (hook up cable in the car, ditch the Swift table we never used, carry caravan wheel-clamp in the car etc and a 60kg reduction was quickly found. We always carry the awning and chairs in the car along with cable, clamp and tools. We also remove carpets (8-10kg) on purchase and drain the water (10kg) before every trip too. Swapping gear into Our new Eccles 580 gave an opportunity to cull ‘stuff’ which can build up very easily.
0
