Caravan on a driveway
Hi all, I'm sure this question has been asked a million times before but everyone's circumstances are slightly different so here goes...
My father passed away recently and left me his home. The in-laws subsequently have moved in there to be closer to the grandkids. The wife and I have also bought our first ever caravan. We cannot store it at our house as the drive is sloped and not enough room, however at our other house where the in-laws live, the drive is plentiful and it is a corner house in a cul-de-sac, perfect we thought. However, after parking the caravan there (and it is to the corner of the house/drive so not exactly sticking out front and centre), one of the nearby residents (not a neighbour, he lives diagonally opposite) is complaining about the caravan. So far, he has accosted both my wife and my mother in law moaning about it and saying it breaches the covenant.
Hi complain is a little bit of a nonsense; moaning that he can no longer see the road that runs alongside; we aren't talking a view of the Cotswolds here! The irony is that before the caravan was there, there was a hedge so he has never been able to see the road! If I am feeling generous, there is a covenant on the deeds, even if it does seem worded slightly woolly, so he is probably correct however a) the estate/group of houses was built in the 70's and b) if you go on Google Maps or even walk around the area, there are plenty of other caravans/motorhomes on drives so lots of people breaching covenant.
So the question is, assuming he takes it to court (I doubt the developer is even still in business, let alone willing to enforce the covenant), is he allowed to single us out or would enforcing the covenant have to apply to every one on the estate? Also, I have seen many posts from people claiming that ARTICLE 1 OF THE FIRST PROTOCOL: PROTECTION OF PROPERTY of the Human Rights Act would overwrite any such covenant preventing putting a caravan on a drive; i.e. that preventing me from my right to enjoy my property and possession could not be overruled by someone disingenuously claiming a view of a road is spoiled.
Does anyone have any insight or experience they can offer? I'm not that fussed; at the end of the day, the guy is a divorced, retired police officer with nothing better to do than harass and intimidate others - pretty sad behaviour if you ask me, but it is what it is. I will leave it until such time as solicitor's letters arrive and then move it - no skin off my nose, I just wondered what recent law and cases had to say about it.
Comments
-
We had a covenant on our local development many years ago and, apart from the builder or a moaning neighbour, nobody is likely to want to enforce it. The builder who built our development has long gone and there are now many caravans/motorhomes on driveways around and about.
It largely depends on how you value your relationship with the neighbour. I'd agree with your views and, personally, I'd ignore him and let him do whatever he wants. He's trying to bully you into moving your van. Stick with it. He really can't do much.
2 -
What do the other neighbours think? I'd either ignore him all together or try to explain rationally to him why you're choosing to store the van there (might be a bit difficult as he sounds a bit irrational!)
I don't think he's got a leg to stand on - like, Jill, there was a covenant on our house when it was originally built, but that is really to protect the developer's interests - once they've finished the estate they're very unlikely to be interested.
So stand your ground, you could consult Citizen's Advice - they may be able to put your mind at rest.
0 -
The covenant on our housing estate states that all front gardens are to remain open plan .... I can count the open plans front gardens on one hand and have fingers left over. And next door keeps their caravan on their drive, though the house was built at a much later date.
0 -
we have the same ruling, but only restricts caravans, so our MH sits on the drive unopposed, but I did let the neighbours know our plans First, luckily they like the van and wished us the best, wait it out, sitting on your property after all.
0 -
Only if it says that in your particular Deeds. The covenants on our properties last 'in perpetuity' which is defined, in the Deeds, as 50 years from the date of the first transfer.
0 -
I doubt whether anyone here can answer the question you raise with any certainty. Given that you have recently become the owner of the property I assume some legal transfer was undertaken by a Solicitor? If that was the case said Solicitor should have made you aware of any restrictions on the building and land. If they have not done that, hopefully not an oversight, perhaps there are no restrictions? If that is the case you are free to keep the caravan there. It then depends how far you are willing to go to appease said neighbour. If its on a corner could you perhaps move it more round the side of the house out of view? Perhaps you need to be mindful that it is not you living there so your in laws are going to be the ones taking the flack most of the time.
David
0 -
I'm no lawyer but if you were not appraised of the restrictive covenant, which seems unlikely since you inherited it, you are in a position to plead ignorance in your dealings with the neighbour. Before approaching him, it may be worth ascertaining the current position relating to it. If it is effectively unenforceable( I thought only the person establishing the covenant could enforce it), a conciliatory note can be taken but pointing out that the neighbour cannot do anything and its position does not restrict his right to light and air.
Are you able to install some screening trellis to reduce the visual impact and thus pacify him?
0 -
Much depends on whether the covenant has been challenged in the last twenty years or so and whether your neighbours doing the same asked for permission without objection etc. As said you need to check with your solicitor, also did the solicitor suggest insurance to indemnify you?
0 -
From my experience I can go along with what Jill says. Something almost the same happened to us in 1995.
Our deeds where set by the original builder/landowner and stipulated no Pigeons, Pigs or Poultry could be kept on the land. New neighbour moved in and immediately set about building a pigeon cree where he kept three dozen pigeons. Majority of neighbours where up in arms and took legal advice. The outcome was that the house, built in 1960 would have had the deeds set as stated but they would almost certainly have expired with the death of the builder. To this day most neighbours have nothing to do with this man but being so in love with his pigeons he isn't bothered because he knows he won an unfortunately we just had to accept it.
As others have advised I would suggest you just ignore this man. Perhaps the position of authority he had as a policeman hasn't left him.
0 -
The covenant will have been written into the Deeds when the house was built by the developer and is, in reality, to protect the appearance of the development whilst they are selling the new build houses in the latter stages.
We have just moved into a three year old house and the developer will be on site for another 2-3 years yet and we also have the same restrictive covenant which is written so that I may not “park” (whatever that means) a caravan and many other types of vehicles and boats on the property.
I contacted the developer's head office to seek a definition of the word “park” as I need to keep the ‘van overnight for cleaning/packing a few times each summer. The response from a company official was to the effect that they can’t (and can’t be bothered to) enforce the covenant in any case and no-one else can either.
Keep the ‘van where it is and let him waste his time trying to do something about it – he can’t especially if the developer is not there to worry about it.
0 -
As others have already said, the covenant is probably with the builder and doubtful that he cares now, if even around. Is chummy worried that too many caravans on drives might devalue his property, would seem there is nothing else that could bother him from the description.We once had a neighbour who complained like this, we just smiled and said that's where it is staying. Sadly they thought they owned the road and were always complaining about someone but we never heard anymore about it. Fortunately they have now moved, most were glad to see them go.Your parents can refer complainer back to you as your property and caravan, keeping complainer off their back. Personally I would explain that builder probably doesn't care enough to pay out for solicitors and not up to complainer to enforce.
1 -
You need to be careful about the assumption that the covenant can only be enforced by the builder who may not be around / care about enforcement. If the covenant was made between the builder and only the first purchaser, then that will be the case. However, in most cases, the covenant is passed on from one purchaser to the next and therefore stays with the property. It gives the right of enforcement to any owner on that estate to object about any caravan etc on that development, regardless of whether or not he/she can actually see it!
By way of example, here is an extract from the Transfer Document, relating to our property (emphasis mine):
"AND the Transferee (buyer) for himself and his successors so as to bind the property and to benefit the Estate hereby covenants with the Transferor (builder) and its successors and separately with the Regional Company and its successors and separately with every other person who is now the owner on any part of the Estate
(i) to observe and perform the restrictive stipulations in the first part of the Schedule hereto" (The Restrictive covenants covering such things as no caravans, motorhomes, boats etc)
Whether or not your person knows this / can be bothered / is willing to go to the expense of seeking legal advice is another matter - as is the fact that if it did end up in court, there is no guarantee that the court will impose an enforcement notice - are risks that the 'complainer' would have to assess..
Although I have a legal (criminal law) background, I don't profess to be a property expert - but I have researched this in detail because I am, potentially, in the same situation as the OP. In my case, I'm just keeping my head down - as are the seven or eight other caravanners in my immediate vicinity. For the last six years, I have got away with it!
0 -
I think complaining is one thing but getting down to actually shelling out money & getting embroiled in a stressful & costly situation just to get your way is something completely different. I’ve had a solicitors letter re parking ‘near someone’s driveway with the potential to obstruct entrance & exit’. The ‘near’ was around 4’ from the 1st gate post. We had words, I pointed out I was not an obstruction. A letter came, I ignored it, a police officer called I showed him where I was parked, he apologised for bothering me. I still park there when I need to. That was 7yrs ago. Others got the same letter too. Some folk are very controlling🤷🏻♂️
0 -
I think that the last two posts just about sum it up. Complaining is one thing but taking the matter further and paying to do so is another. Also some people do try to be very controlling. My advice is to leave it where it is, then if you get a legal letter, decide what to do then.
0 -
This subject takes me back a bit , Last house parked caravan on drive end of culdesac not in anyones way .. Tucked in corner . Who moaned ? bloke other side of fence , didnt like to see 2 foot of white over fence , although it had been there for 10 years ? Moved house to a nice little bungalow , parked a yellow van at side of house for one night , woman came round , that looks disgusting lowering tone ,if it was sign written you cant park it here ! Asked if she owned a house here , no ,i am a partener of so and so ,,not youre house ,no . bugger off !
2 -
We don’t get problems at home, lovely neighbours. But I did have to sort one out bothering my Mum. All over nothing really, but they were bullies. I stopped them in their tracks by pointing out that any disputes with neighbours, particularly if solicitors or police involved, have to be declared when selling house, so it could impact on the resale value and marketability of their own property, so would they like to shut up before I escalated things. Not a peep after that. They moved not long after, to a huge sigh of relief from everyone around.😂
2 -
We have a covenant as many have said, when we put our caravan on the drive we only had 2 complaints and both live nowhere near and could not see our houes never mind the caravan.
one complainant actually was high up in the management at Truma years ago told him he had a cheek as he made a nice living out of people like me and the other I advised to walk a different route to avoid passing my house. That was 15 years ago had no problems all that time.
Ignore him just trying to intimidate you.
0 -
My advice is don’t start engaging legally with him even as just a letter from a solicitor as A) it will cost you and
some obsessives of which he sounds a little like will take up the challenge.We have covenants in our deeds as well...I recall no chickens etc but also know from when having moved the legal advice was very much that in general covenants are for when the site is being built and tend not to be enforced. However, that is very general and if there were a specific covenant of which breaching it caused some significant interference to a neighbour from which they demonstrated a detriment then in theory they could take legal action and have it enforced. I understand they would have to demonstrate the have suffered an actual interference or detriment though. From what you have said, your not so near neighbour would really struggle to evidence that
There are loads of places and estates with unenforceable covenants. Most of the open plan estates built in the 1950s onwards had rules about not having fences over 2 foot tall on the front garden but allowed 3 foot in from the boundary! My fathers house was like that with a 6 foot fence 3 foot in from the boundary, but then the covenant didn’t allow for hedges...so people just did that. Nothing was ever enforced as the detriment was not being able to experience the beauty of other gardens in the estate
i would just carry on and ignore him
0
