Payloads - Buyer Beware
I have been looking closely at specifications for new caravans. I had not previously noticed that, in several instances, it is easy for the buyer to be carried away by the glossy photos of larger models while failing to notice a huge drawback. I have been considering two different models from the same company. The major difference amounts to an extra 60 cms in length - 2 feet to my generation. As I browse the photos my eye is drawn to the largely increased storage space: more lockers and extra cupboards. Then I compared the payloads. The smaller model, with less storage, has a 32kg greater payload than its larger counterpart with all the extra capacity.
I wonder how many buyers get caught out by opting for a larger model which cannot be used either safely or legally if its carrying capacity is utilised. The manufacturers are guilty of misleading us all in my opinion. Yes, I know the information is there but I wonder how many sales staff draw attention to this major pitfall.
I will not be paying extra for a longer van with more cupboards than I can use.
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There is an upgrade available but less than 40kg. In our case we need the smaller model with larger payload and then the upgrade as well. That gives us a reasonable margin on top of the weight of the mover and battery.
Some models have a very slim margin once a battery and mover are added, not to mention gas bottles and the full water heater which one can easily forget.
I suspect there may be buyers who do not research adequately and unwittingly travel with un unsafe laden weight.
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We have a coachman and the payloads are quite different across their range.
The top of the range VIP is built on a 1500kg axle where as the entry level vans are built on a 1350kg axle.
We had an upgrade on our van but it was only 35kg, just covered the mover.
I'm pretty sure like ET that many folk are caught out by the poor payload.
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The payload was one of the major considerations in the purchase of our current tin box. Anything less than 165 kgs was not considered. Quite a few salespeople were flummoxed by this stipulation and admitted they were hardly ever asked about payload.
Just as an aside, Quashqai, from memory you used to have a small 'van, was it an Ariva? Are you still looking for something in that range? If so we did look at an Elddis Xplore 2 berth that seemed to have a large upgrade for its size. If you aren't looking then just ignore my latest rambling.
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Many thanks for your interest. Yes, we are still looking. We had a 2013 Xplore and loved it but both front and rear panel had to be replaced - so much for Eldiss Solid construction and 10 year water ingress warranty. Ours leaked in three places in under eighteen months.
We really like the look of the new Xplore but think we may choose a Swift Sprite Alpine in the hope that it may be less prone to damp. So many people have problems with Eldiss and damp. No caravan is perfect and they all seem to be prone to damp but we are still nervous about another one from the Eldiss factory.
An upgrade is available on both models so we would be all right for payload with thought and planning.
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I have always been very conscious of the payload limits. However I have yet to get a definitive answer from any caravan salesperson as to what actually constitutes the payload. I'm frequently told that certain “essential” items that are required for the normal habitation of the van are already taken into account. Typically, I'm told that the battery, hook up cable, spare wheel, wheel wrench, corner steady winder and even a full water heater are all allowed for before you start loading all your personal gear.
I've never trusted all of this, but One has to assume that the battery and hook up cable are allowed for. Otherwise the payload allowance on some modern smaller vans would be completely taken up by these two items alone.
We own such a van which is already very well equipped for comfortable, extended living, so unless you are one of those who like to take half the contents of their house and patio with them, it really isn't too difficult to travel lightly and still be adequately equipped for a comfortable holiday. Food items, especially liquids, account for much of our weight, and a lot of that travels in the car with other heavier items. It's all part of the fun planning your trips.
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I found this, which is for vans made from 2011 onwards....
The situation has changed again for 2011 with a new definition of MIRO to line up with the European Directive for Masses and Dimensions for vehicles. This change is all part of a new European directive that will oblige manufacturers to start to work towards EC Whole Vehicle Type approval, a requirement that will be introduced for all new build caravans from 2014.
The new definition specifies more thoroughly how much weight should be added for items like water. So, if a caravan or motorhome has an on board fresh water tank as standard, it must be assumed that it will be 90% full. In the case of a 30 litre on board water tank the manufacturer must add 27kg to the MIRO. However, by travelling with the tank empty, this weight can be allocated to other items.
Water heaters are assumed to be full of water (typically 10 litres = 10kg) and loo flush tanks too contain a couple of litres. This is the maximum Thetford recommends when travelling. Again, if you travel with these empty then the weight saved can be assigned to other items.
The allowance made for gas includes 2 x 5kg BP Light gas bottles (16.5kg). These weigh about the same as one standard steel 6kg propane cylinder when full.
Surprisingly the new UK definition of MIRO for caravans does not include a battery, which is classed as a personal effect. Apparently this is to help maintain the user payload levels that we are used to. An 85 amp hour battery will weigh around 19kg, a 100 amp hour one around 25kg.
So a battery is not included. The MRO does include everything supplied with the van, so hook up cable, steady winder, spare wheel if supplied, water pump etc etc, then the items allowed for as stated above.
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We own such a van which is already very well equipped for comfortable, extended living, so unless you are one of those who like to take half the contents of their house and patio with them, it really isn't too difficult to travel lightly and still be adequately equipped for a comfortable holiday. Food items, especially liquids, account for much of our weight, and a lot of that travels in the car with other heavier items. It's all part of the fun planning your trips.
there are two berth caravans with a user payload of 120kg. Put a mover and a decent size battery aboard and you are down by 50kg to 70kg. By the time you put food in the fridge, condiments and cooking equipment and bedding aboard. I doubt that you have any more personal weight allowance thank you would on a British Airways flight for two. (Most sites stock Calor rather than BP gaslight).
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Having an axle fail,and realising now that I have an extremely small payload,what I cannot understand is the weight of bedding for the fixed bed,and the weight of my security locks.All these are a requirement, yet my payload just doesn't stretch for that amount.
I was stunned to silence when my dealer said,"Just because there are cupboards there you haven't got to fill them"
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Great care needs to exercised when using a published MIRO figure because it does not represent an ex works weight of the vehicle in question. It is the weight of that model as it was submitted for type approval and does not include any factory-fitted options. It doesn't even necessarily include mandatory options without which it is impossible to purchase. The battery could be an example. The difference can therefore be quite considerable.
Because it is virtually impossible to establish what the type approved vehicle was equipped with at the time, the only reliable figure that one can use is to actually weigh the vehicle concerned.
It is unfortunate that UK caravan manufacturers in general arrive at an MTPLM by adding a standard payload to the MIRO. There is absolutely no reason why they should specify such a limit other than perhaps marketing considerations.
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I was stunned to silence when my dealer said,"Just because there are cupboards there you haven't got to fill them"
You never get a salesman mention payload, never mind how much is left after battery and gas and a mover. As far as I am aware most manufacturers say that the caravan should not be operated without a battery so it is ridiculous that this is excluded from most caravans
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I was just doing some more research and have found that manufacturers are now allowed to specify how much water in heaters/toilet flush/onboard tanks;pipe work is included in the MRO, and some are now specifying zero water.
Info here.......
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It all depends on whether the model was submitted for type approval with water in the heaters/toilet flush/ onboard tanks or not. It’s up to the manufacturer to decide what he considers to be standard equipment. The definition of what is included in the MIRO as standard fitment is an industry standard and not a legal requirement.
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Indeed, pretty sure most would prefer to stay silent on payloads, but if asked, or if they do give details, then they would need to specify exactly what is included in MRO.
Inadequate payloads in new UK vans are one of the reasons we are hanging on to our 2008 model.
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We also upgraded, by 85kg, to a supposed 368kg, but as our van is old, that has to cover everything that was not in the van at purchase.....gas, water in heater etc, battery, air con, mover, extra sockets, shocks, plus all our stuff....and having had our van weighed, I suspect ours was somewhat overweight originally, compared to the stated MRO.
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Just collected our new Coachman. At my request the dealer weighed the van with me looking on, already fitted with motor mover and battery. I now know exactly what it weighs. Everything that goes into the van is weighed using the bathroom scales method. The payload is only 126 kg. so we know what needs to go in the car, and can confirm on our first trip out in the new van we were running at 40 kg. below MTPLM.
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If like me, you only have a modest payload allowance, you might consider these two options:
Firstly I removed the enormously heavy free standing table that is frequently supplied in two berth vans, and often stowed in the wardrobe. In over 20 years of continuous caravanning, I don't recall ever needing it. We do however keep a much lighter folding one in the boot of the car for outside use etc.
Secondly, I've just removed our two piece fitted carpet for winter storage. You'd be surprised how much that weighs! I appreciate that this is a very desirable feature that enhances the living experience, but we tend to leave it at home once the warmer weather (hopefully) comes mid season as we seem to come in and out more frequently, thereby bringing in more muck to spoil it. We also feel that the laminate floor featured in most vans now, looks and feels fine and practical in warmer weather.
That said, I still have no idea what the true payload allowance is for my van, so I always keep the weight of our personal requirements including mover, to below 120kg. I also still assume that one gas cylinder and the leisure battery is allowed for.
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According to the info published, a battery is not allowed for, so you need to take that into account.
We too have removed the freestanding table, which as you say is pretty heavy, as we never use it, but like the carpet so it has stayed!
The only way for anyone to be sure that they are within the allowed weight for their van is to take it to a weighbridge once loaded up with everything that is normally carried, and get it checked.
We did this and found that it was heavier than we had expected, though not too heavy, so we had a good clear out. We now do this every year so things do not creep back in. It is very easy to accumulate stuff over the year!
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The MRO for our 4 berth 2015 Lunar includes 5kgs for the hook up cable, 8kg of gas, ( an empty bottle alone weighs about 8kgs I think), 10 ltrs of water between the toilet and the water heater, ( our water heater holds 9 ltrs = 9kgs). I think there is some other bizarre item but I can't readily bring it to mind. A battery is not included in the MRO but the handbook states that the 12v circuit should not be used without a battery in place so why is this not included if other 'silly' items are?
I don't know about others but I never travel with the water heater filled and we frequently have the hook up cable in the car.
I've decreased the MRO our 'van or increased the payload which ever way you want to look at it by removing the upper bunk which we will never want to use. This gave us an immediate increase of 15kgs in the payload available. As sad as it may seem I do know the weight of everything that is in the caravan and keep the list on an XL spreadsheet . This is easily transferred if we change our caravan and I have been using this spreadsheet for at least 15 years with changes made as and when necessary. The only variables are the weight of clothes and the weight of food carried but even here I know what the minimum of maximum is going to be.
What I can't understand is why the manufacturers can't run the caravan over a set of weigh pads at the end of the production line and then state the actual MRO and don't bother at all about the bits that can be added after the caravan is produced which seems to vary between manufacturers? It's hardly much extra work for them. When we got our caravan I took it to a weighbridge the day after I got it and found that it was actually 47 kg LESS than the plated MRO (assuming that the council operated weighbridge was accurate). Happy days.
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