Length of motorhome
we have an auto trail apache that is 6.9m long and it is coming to a sensible time to renew it. the newest version is 7.4m long as are many of the vans that fit our requirements/wants. a friend has said that anything over 7m is a problem with grounding the back end. is this just his experience or is this common and limits the sites you can visit? Thanks for your advice
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Grounding has more to do with the rear overhang, as JVB said, rather than overall length.
Small is beautiful in my book but each to their own🙂
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We used to have an Apache 700SE which was 7.2 meters long. I must admit we did ground it a few times a couple of times on our way in to Berwick Seaview club site which has quite a steep approach road but we learned to take the road at a certain angle and it was fine. Also managed to clatter the towbar once when coming out a petrol station as there was a (slight) dip on the road. Overall it was fine we had the van 4 years and this only happened say 4-5 times. The van did have quite a long over hang at the back.
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I can't speak for the model in question but our previous Bailey Approach 740 was 7.5 metres long and a fairly long overhang. It was renown for being very low to the ground and in six years it only grounded once and that was when I turned off a main road and into a minor steep approach road to the campsite in Austria. I had been expecting problems but they never materialised. I had always thought that Auto Trail's always higher off the ground than Bailey's?
David
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what are your specific requirements/wants?
while some manufacturers have just been adding length (and cost and weight) year on year, some have become much more innovative, finding ways to give the same feel/layouts but in a smaller space.
you dont say which Apache you have, but perhaps another converter can meet your needs without the concerns over length, overhang...
also, remember, these larger vans give tiny payloads at 3500kg (sometimes all but unusable) but to drive them at heavier weights will require different license groups and add speed and other restrictions.
good luck.
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My "Concorde Charisma" (and most Concorde's) have 'drag wheels' fitted as standard.These protect the rear valence and under body from damage due to the long overhang,such as ferries/tide levels',road humps etc etc .Not an expensive addition i would think ,compared to the rear end being ripped off !! 
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sorry, just seen its the rear lounge 700 model.
i dont know what the 'old' version chassis was, but with the longer body, the new version runs on the heavy 4250kg chassis...great for payload but requires C1 license group.
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We can't consider a longer motorhome due to the angle and steepness of our driveway. Somehow the articulated caravan and tow car manged it but there are drawbacks in certain situations, particularly on steep sided sites and steep bends etc.
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we have the apache 632 with a transverse rear bed which is just under 4ft wide..... it can get just a bit cosy! we are going to the nec to see what other options there are. we just wanted to see if the length was a significant issue. we are also very aware of the payload issue but thanks for reminding me.
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Very interested in this post as we have an Eldiss 175 which has a long overhang and unfortunately we have had two scrapes and have to have a replacement 'bumper' fitted. Can anyone advise where we can purchase these 'drag wheels' for after sales fitting so that they can help eliminate the problem.
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wendy, i dont mean to put you off your prospective shiny new van but (i feel) this is important....
yes, the latest 632 has grown and put on weight BUT is only available on the light chassis, so payload issues are worse than your current van
the following is from the autotrail website weight calculator for two up and no water or other extras
Maximum authorised weight 3500
Number of passenger seats 1
Passengers allowance (nominal weight of passenger) 75
Passengers personal allowance 94 (47kg for each of your personal effects, clothes perhaps...)
Weight of selected options 0
Weight remaining 46kg......This is the issue!
46kg remaining payload with no water, chairs, tables, bbq, bikes, tools, hoses, water carriers, additional leads or any or AT factory fit or dealer fit options.
so, IMHO definitely unworkable at that weight.
however, there is a 3850kg upgrade which appears to give 'more payload' however the axle limits dont change, so that rear axle will still be pretty close to its limit of 2000kg.
you will need C1 on your license to drive with any upgrade.
if you are at all interested in this van i would say you MUST get the dealer to weigh the actual van (with you both aboard and a tank of water) as part of the sale deal and get an accurate 'spare capacity' figure for the rear axle, and you must know the weight of what you intend to carry.
re the beds....as well as the whole van growing, the rear bed is a tad wider at 1.35m....but still typically UK 'slim'.. despite this being a 7.36m van..
just to give you an idea of how different markets place more emphasis on different elements, our German van is a metre shorter than yours yet has a rear bed 1.47m wide and the drop down cab bed is 1.60m wide.
i guess you are after a garage style van (under the bed) perhaps for bikes?....if so, there may well others (certainly continental vans, where this layout is very common) that fit the bill.
also, at £60k+ there will be many top line 1-2 year old premium branded vans (double floor, A class, Alde heating, garage etc) on the market which might give you the sort of van that would be out of reach new.
good luck, but watch that weight.
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We switched to a motorhome over three years ago and cut down massively on the equipment that we used to carry in the caravan and car. No loungers, no picnic table, tiny awning mat and so on. I was quite surprised then when I weighed it fully loaded (admittedly with a full freshwater tank) and found I was only about 60kg within the total 3500kg. So, around 500 kg payload with the minimum of equipment (and two lightweight passengers!).
BoleroBoy has quite rightly raised this payload issue a few times and it is extremely important. I should also mention that I am close to the rear axle maximum weight of 2000 kg.
We have looked at many different motorhomes on our travels through Europe and researched at the Show and on-line. The fact is that there are a large number of motorhomes that have totally inadequate payloads and it is almost false representation for manufacturers to sell them as 3500 kg when a weight upgrade will almost certainly be needed. No wonder they quietly state, for example, that the fresh water should be limited to 20 litres when travelling despite the 100 - 150 litre capacity.
Fine, most can be up-plated, but there are many issues once you go over 3500kg - licence for over 70’s, speed limits on the continent, weight restrictions etc. I wonder how many buyers are aware of all this?
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good post from Hitch, some real world weight advice from a user of a fairly small van.
although our van was delivered (from stock) already upplated to 3850kg, for the reasons Hitch mentions above, we choose (and are well able to) run at 3500kg...
we are actually 3420kg (incl wine allowance) all up, full fuel, full water, gas, and kit for a three month tour. our axle weights are fine as our small A class seems particularly well balanced front/rear.
start adding a metre to the length of Hitch's and my vans and you can see that running at 3500kg needs thought and care.
never believe any sales talk re payloads, nor take brochures as Gospel, there are disclaimers allowing for 5% +/- variances...on 3500kg this gives a leeway of 175kg....thats a huge chunk to lose, especially if you dont have it in the first place.
as recommended above, due to potential variances, i had the dealer weigh our actual van prior to delivery as i wanted to be totally sure i had my 'weight' sums right.
as it happens, my fully loaded weight was within 20kg of my calculated weight.
the 632 is listed as having a MIRO (mass in running order) of 3275kg, for comparison my van is 2825kg...thats 450kg lighter.....yet with a fully loaded van, i run at just over 3400kg....that gives you some idea about how 'difficult' the 632 will be at 3500kg.
autotrails own weight calculator looked dodgy, but tackle it another way....
take the 3275kg MRO starting point....
† Mass in Running Order (MRO): The Mass in Running Order (MRO) is the mass of the empty vehicle including a 75kg allowance for the driver, the Diesel tank full and an LPG cylinder full. The MRO is calculated with the freshwater tank empty on all models and with one 13kg LPG cylinder..
now add the passenger at a nominal 75kg, plus 100ltr water (the tank holds 135 ltr) and the van now weighs 3450kg.....still totally empty.
no factory/dealer options, no clothes, bedding (blooming heavy), outside gear, crockery, cutlery, and everything else needed.
at 3650kg you have an extra 150kg, so a total payload of 200kg but using this will certainly bring the rear axle to its limit.
if you get to this point, there really isnt any further upgrade path on the light chassis.
other vans with similar layouts may have the option of being specified on the heavy chassis (4250kg) this would be far more suitable for a van of this length and MRO.
good luck.
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Hi, have a word with "Southdown Motor Homes" at Portsmouth,,they know all about drag wheels ,,as they are fitted as standard to " Concords" .
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Thanks triky auto will get in touch with them and they might also be able to point me towards a dealer in the north east who can help.
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Thanks bolero boy we are mostly going to look at layout options and hope to buy a 1-2yr old. We put the bikes on the back but like a garage for bbq, windbreaks etc
what sort of van do you have? it really is bed space that is the issue with ours and those figures are certainly worrying.
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i have a Carthago (not our previous one that in my avatar) its the smallest model called Compactline as its only 2.12m wide. however, this is wide enough for the bed to be 1.96m long.
as the bed is fairly high, we have a full sized garage underneath and the bikes can just be wheeled in...away from elements and prying eyes. its also heated (drying coats etc) and has power for bike battery charging etc.
the slim width and 6.4m length means its just 6cm wider than a DUcato panel van but doesnt have the sloping sides which can make PVCs feel a bit claustrophobic.
there are a couple used on ebay.
Adria (and Burstner, i think) do slim coachbuilts that easily run at 3500kg.
re the weight issues, will it be just the two of you?
do you have a C1 license to drive heavier vans?
will you be off gridding at all?....you may be thinking about solar panels and extra batteries which add weight.
are you heading for the continent or the uk or both...
there are also other layout vans (from 6m) which give a large lounge and great washroom facilities as they dont have a fixed bed, using a one piece drop down bed which will be as comfortable as a fixed bed, with no making it up each night as bedding stays in place.
with an A class van (full width cab), the drop down bed is transverse and covers the dash and cab seats,meaning the lounge is still usable, whereas with a normal coachbuilt, the bed will cover the lounge as the cab isnt wide enough to accommodate it.
most of these will be continental and will run at 3500kg.
for a completely different view which might highlight how this above style might work, check out Roller Team Pegaso 590, a 6m A class van with drop down bed, a little marvel of a van with loads of space. bang on your budget. comes with bike rack on the back.
transverse a class drop downs can also be extended to become singles as you then sleep longitudinally.
for a more upmarket version of the same layout see Frankia 640 SD.....will need to be used at your budget but this is a wonderful van if you can find one. SMC (newark) usually have one..
good luck.
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I would have a look at the Unhappy Autotrail Group on Facebook. Lot of unhappy people on there complaining about the build quality of MHs they have bought. Few have even rejected them because they have so many faults.
I would say buy a foreign Motorhome at least you know it will be well screwed together. Trouble is they don’t have this British Specification that the Dealers harp on so much about.
We have an A Class Laika with very comfortable beds, no microwave and a small oven. Depends on what you want it for but making up beds every night if you are away for 6 x 8 weeks is a pain.
As for grounding we have a Fiat Chassis and at 7.5m we have never grounded. Watched a Bailey with a low chassis ground on a speed hump. Why do they have to make then that low. Possible to save on having to add an external step.
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i would say Continental converters are now extremely savvy as to Brit layout requirements....
face to face lounge seating without the half dinette and optional 'hidden' Aguti travel seats for those that need them is very much the current vogue, as are 'Brit friendly' kitchens with full cookers, electric notplates and even microwaves.
agreed, rear fixed beds (single, island, transverse) are still very popular, but rear lounges are also 'hot'....but not the simple low set, pull together bed you see on many a uk van...
these will be on raised floors to give garage height storage underneath for bikes (ever see that on a Bailey et all) and maybe a huge one piece drop down bed over that lounge so no bed making required and front lounge available for tv etc even if partner is off to bed.
having looked around a bit at the NEC this week, even the top brands are succumbing to the 'save weight' thinking and some of the panels arent as thick/heavy as in years gone by, and some 'wood finishes' certainly aren't
(wood or finished).however, good design is still to the fore with loads of innovative stuff, but choose carefully.
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Thanks for all the help. Also at the nec this weekend and have gone for a rapido. Great payload, rear bed, garage etc. It has an oven but we had to sacrifice the electric ring on the hob..... 7.2 long so 23 cm longer but overhang is the same.
thank you
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Ah, looks like the 686F....nice van, enjoy
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We have a Hobby motorhome with Fiat chassis which is 7.5m and has a long and low overhang. Only twice have we grounded the rear and both times involved using Scottish roll on/ off ferries.
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