Caravan Satisfaction Survey
Comments
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Totally agree: we go away all year around and it has been a pain having to take our van in for repairs, which invariably take longer to do than we are originally told (usually due to delays from Swift in sending parts).
We traded in our 2001 Elddis Typhoon for our current Sprite and I sometimes wish we had kept our old van, which seemed far sturdier and well made. We also used to use a small independent company to service the Elddis and the customer service and work done by them was a much better standard than what we currently experience being tied in to a dealer warranty.
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quality was right at the top of our decision making process followed by layout and price..
That's the way I'm looking at it, too AD. As we are away for over 2/3rds of the year in the van we need the reassurance of a reliable outfit. Quality is of course very important, DavidK, as we can't think about changing a unit every few years.
TG we too have the same problem of not having any dealers close to us that carry foreign makes.
The 2019 version of your van OP is one that would suit, but again there's no Coachman dealer close to us.
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The Wanderers are back! You have asked me to name my 'worst' car and caravan (I thought some might guess from the text), so here goes:
The car was a Landrover Discovery new in 2009. The first failure was the electric handbrake at 30,000 miles (out of guarantee, sir, I'm afraid) and when passed on the exhaust gas re-circulatory valves and the suspension pump were u/s, the steering and suspension were knocking and rattling - all by 65,000 miles.
The caravan was a Coachman Vision 520/4 new in 2015. The first year the combi boiler failed 8 times with an error message not in the manual (fortunately recoverable by me - though why it has 2 heat settings I'll never know), The bunk catches failed to do their job (fixed by me), the 'fridge 12v element failed. There were about 10 other concerns, some fixed by the dealers, some seemed to fix themselves. After 3 years the battery charger unit failed (if yours is made by BCA then watch out). (out of guarantee, sir, I'm afraid). I have had a number of caravans for over 12 years and NEVER had a previous failure. The support from Coachman was non-existent and generally obstructive (e.g. taking 3 weeks to answer letters, requiring money weeks ahead for spares, etc.). Admittedly, most of these problems were caused by equipment manufacturers and not the actual caravan, but I have noticed recently that the floor is creaking in the kitchen area now. Incidentally, the new charger unit, fitted Jan 2019 has now failed.
So, being cheerful, what's the best car and caravan we've owned:
A Fleetwood Diadem 2-berth, second hand, which came with separate gas/electric central heating and hot water and a 12 gal. underfloor tank with gauge (why can't I choose a suitable caravan with one nowadays?). Not many were made, but we had it for 12 years and it was brilliant.
A Renault 30TX with a 2.7 litre 6 cyl engine at the front (front wheel drive too!) that balanced the weight of the caravan on the back. If allowed, you could cruise an outfit at 80mph all day with it. OK, petrol was about 25mpg, but a lot of current 4 cyl diesels these days are on the wrong side of 30 towing.
(All MPG's are genuine - the Landrover MPG display was 12.5% optimistic - another ploy to make you believe the car is better than it actually is.) Trying a 6 cyl BMW X3 at present - will report soon.
Regards to everyone P. & J.
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the combi has two heat settings (900/1800w) to allow the heating to still be used (on 900w) when other electrical items are being used at the same time on a site with a low amperage (4/6/10 etc) supply.
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If you have a problem or are pleased with your caravan purchased from 2016 onwardswhy not complete the PC survey. https://www.practicalcaravan.com/news/155903-practical-caravan-owner-satisfaction-survey-2020
There is another for motorhomes with Practical Motorhomes.
These results are published in full so your input would help others.
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Any idea when they publish the results, Wildwood? Might make interesting reading following all the problems that have been posted on here and in other forums.
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Early in the year.
Seek and you will find.
or just type Practical caravan owners satisfaction survey into any search engine.
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Cheers, Boff.
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Strangely my best and worst caravans were both Bailey's
Best 1999 Senator Montana came fully loaded as they say, inboard tank, Aircon, very nice fit and finish, real wood door frames etc. Owned 10 years and took a pounding from a young family, finally succumbed to damp. Could have had repair but traded with known fault, reappeared on dealers forecourt later! Oh and it had a generous load margins and miro
= Best Adria Altea 2009, still own - interestingly no damp! Basic van but a good box on a heavy duty chassis, few niggles with taps and some trim but easy DIY fixes. Good load margin and miro.
Worst Bailey unicorn 3 2015 still own - washroom tap fell off , front chest of drawers slide failed , voltmeter failed, roof strap leak, axle failed, brakes squealy (x4) all in 1st 3 years. Pitiful load margin and MRO.
However Bailey's warranty and speed of parts must be praised, along with our Bailey registered independent service engineer.
Only had 1 car break down towing, starter motor on M5 services albeit at 100k miles as that was a Daewoo Musso owned from new. Most expensive repair BMW plastic timing chain guide on a 2011 X1 at 24K,miles 4 years old. Engine out job over £2k luckily had opted for the extended warranty! £10 part!!!
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I think it is January but you need to check their website to be sure. It also turns up on the C&CC website in full.
The two can differ in that the magazine used the data for some foreign caravans, whereas the club felt the numbers last year were too low to be sure they were accurate. The foreign caravans that were in the magazine did well and Adria came out top.
Last years results are on https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/tent-survey/caravan-owner-satisfaction-awards/
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Thanks Wildwood. Must remember to keep a look out for the issue.
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Each year after it's annual service I post about our flagship (Sterling Continental 570 with the fandango super brilliant materials) heap of crap consisting of common poor quality parts thrown together at the circus at Cottingham.
This years service, it's 4th, saw a cracked rear panel repaired under warranty. A failed pump in the loo was replaced (a common poor quality part from Thetford). Damp was found that requires a warranty replacement of a new battery box and a 3rd battery box door in it's lifetime.
That's over 50 faults requiring replacement of common poor quality parts, refitting of thrown together bits and pieces that have fallen off or failed in service.
The fandango interior doesn't absorb water, thankfully, as we found earlier in the year when the thrown together plumbing in the bathroom dislodged the water pipe connections leading to a flooded bathroom and necessitated disassembly of the washroom cabinetry and panels to get access to put the connections back together and fix the errant bodge undertaken by the clowns at the circus in Cottingham. Not something I expect to have to do on holiday in a flagship caravan to be frank.
Fortunately we have a great dealer who understand my sense of humour when I book 'our heap of crap' in for warranty and service work all too frequently.
In discussion with other owners at BW, who had alerted us to the water pouring from the caravan, we established the 10 year warranty is to give the cowboys at Swift the chance to provide a fit for purpose fault free caravan over the 10 years as clearly they can't or won't bother doing it right first time at the circus.
Despite written assurances from Swift DMD that things would improve, they clearly haven't. A caravan and constructing one is not complicated in the 21st century, there appears not a will to do so on the part of Swift.
Whilst some will doubtless say there are non faulty caravans, the fact is in our experience we have a heap of crap that cost good money and no amount of appeasement will change that fact. It's a lottery. We have the right to express the facts. We accept that we have a heap of crap that will continue to give us issues, its the reality of having foolishly bought a flagship caravan from a cowboy manufacturer, just as people buy a house from cowboy builders. We will continue to use the heap of crap until it is out of warranty as it gives us holidays in place we might not otherwise go to. We won't pass it on to some poor unsuspecting buyer. We won't be pouring good money after bad in buying another caravan after this experience.
and we are still
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The range of views expressed about caravan reliability clearly demonstrates huge variation in design and manufacture of caravans. Variation is the key characteristic in producing poor quality.
To those that believe that additional weight of equipment etc is responsible for lighter materials and hence poor quality, you perhaps need to think again.
Good design is inextricably linked with good material choice. Sorry, but I don't feel inclined to let our manufacturers off the hook and agree it's all too difficult. If you can't make what we want, don't promise it! Although, strangely some manufactures can - maybe not near enough to where we live.
Which of our caravan manufacturers have a nationally recognised quality certification? Car manufacturers use TS 16949, many other industries use ISO 9000 or a version thereof.
The industry will not change overnight if it does not have to. Keep paying them for their output, however good or bad and they will keep doing the same thing.
So back to the original poster, yes, it is absolutely vital that we as buyers have good information about the good the bad and the ugly. We need fact based information collated objectively so that we as buyers can make an informed purchasing decisions to encourage those manufacturers that have delighted us and those that have not to up their game. Ultimately, money talks!
I have been personally disappointed about the lack of objectivity and detail in some 'surveys'. Maybe we need to devise and publish our own.
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Our caravan (not naming the make) is now into its 8th year. When we first bought it (new) it quickly developed numerous faults, and having to go back to repair water ingress at the front. Other problems i have rectified myself. I would not buy another van of the same make and, rather than buy new, I would look for a well serviced and cared for used van where faults had been professionally rectified, or had not developed in the first place. This would also allow taking advantage of the hefty reduction in value that happens in the first couple of years of depreciation.
I have noticed a lot less complaining from buyers of used vans than from those who bought from new. There has to be a moral there somewhere.
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What’s the point in not naming the make? 🤔
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So that I don't get my post removed - have seen it happen before!
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I believe you to be mistaken, LT.
Have you not read the many posts slating Swift, Coachman, Lunar, Elddis et al?
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Agree with TW, there are any number of complaints regarding different named makes of caravans & M/Hs.
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We had four caravans over a period of about 20 years. Three had damp. The first, an Abbey, eventually had to be written off for scrap. A compass had a small area of damp which was repaired. The Bailey Unicorn I have written about frequently so I won’t repeat but was twice back to the factory for damp and after we got rid of it had a further £5000 of damp repairs.
Yes, it should be possible to design a “dry” caravan, however, I am not sure it is that simple. People will know that boat equipment is very expensive due to the harsh environment. Well, caravans are subject to a difficult environment. EXAMPLE:
Our motorhome has a Daewoo microwave, approximate cost £50. It’s packed up. Is that surprising? Well, it’s been shaken, and bumped for 10,000 miles and it’s not designed for that. If it was even possible to buy a microwave that would be guaranteed to survive that treatment for 15 years (say) what would it cost? £500? Now apply a factor of 5 - 10 to every item of equipment and accessory in the motorhome. Cost of vehicle £150,000 perhaps?
We all want light weight, luxurious interiors at affordable prices. Something has to give!
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Given the conflict between lighter, eco friendly, cars which people are commonly buying, and our UK caravan manufacturers desire to please and therefore sell to, customers with lighter cars, maybe it’s a case of “you’d better not hope that you get what you wish for”. Of course caravans can be made stronger, if customers are happy with the weight penalty, reduced payload etc. People on this forum complain about poor quality, referring to the good old days when caravans were made from wood and didn’t flex. Well actually they did flex, and laminated composites have enormous strength by comparison. That’s why aeroplanes aren’t built from wood and stringers any more. Far better, I’d say, to concentrate on short lived but internationally sourced components like fridges, windows, taps, heating, toilets, extractor fans etc, Certainly a leaking corner of the caravan shell can be expensive to repair, but how much do readers think a replacement fridge unit costs? Such units are being specified and designed to chill just 20deg below ambient temperature, that’s 12deg in our recent high of 32deg. Did you know that food should be kept at 5 deg to remain safe? These are foreign made components in widespread use across the EU. You want light and cheap, so that’s what the manufacturers provide. Are you really prepared to pay Airstream prices for Airstream quality? Have you any idea what weight of car is needed to tow an Airstream? At the end of the day we’ve got what we paid and asked for - faults and all.
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Our heap of crap is the heaviest single axle available in the range, towed initially by a heavy saloon car and now a heavier SUV. The newer version of the saloon car is too light for the caravan, hence a heavier tow car. At no point in the process to buy was lightness or cheapness a factor or specified, it wasn't cheap as the flagship. It was sold as a flagship product with superior materials. It was thrown together same as a cheaper and more expensive, lighter and heavier version down the same circus line. Weight and price have no bearing, inconsistent quality is the issue.
There are no UK manufacturers of caravans. There are UK based assemblers of poor quality common parts masquerading as caravans.
Having seen recent Airstreams since Swift's involvement, I certainly wouldn't call them quality with common poor quality parts as other ranges in the caravan industry. Purchase price is not a measure of quality in the caravan game.
Poor quality parts can be made anywhere, just as good quality parts can be made consistently, anywhere.
Replacement components from an OEM are priced for sale at a premium, always have been, always will be. A purely commercial decision. A replacement fridge as your example costs the same or less to produce as the same fridge going straight to the circus line. What it is sold to the end customer for is something different.
Not interested, nor are Swift evidently, in what the repair to the cracked rear panel cost, its under warranty for 10 years. Swift may have built in potential warranty costs over the 10 years, although I seriously doubt it. I suggest they play the odds on people not owning caravans for the full warranty period and limit their exposure in the main to reduced warranty on resales.
After all those awfully nice dealers will do a deal on the next caravan as they always have done in the decades people been buying the latest version in time for the holiday they booked and they'll fix the problems in the time they own it, and the next caravan will have the same problems as they always have as thats wot caravans are like, and people keep buying them and accepting poor quality. Not us, this was the first and last time we bought a heap of crap built by a bunch of cowboys.
My cooked food is served hot, not at 5 degC as you suggest. My ready to eat foodstuffs on the shelf are served at ambient temperature. My ready to eat foodstuffs out of the fridge are served at wotever the temp of the fridge is. Always been safe, unless it honks , walks or is mouldy in which case it goes in the bin, not me
Didn't ask, or pay for a heap of crap, but thats wot we got.
At the end of the day, it's night
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i see the latest 'innovation' is to produce 8' wide caravans...yes, more living space, even more weight and (I guess) a pain to drive: the report I read suggested a LR Discovery was the minimum 'type of vehicle' required to tow it.
with the need to produce lighter (less powerful?) cars aren't the two things heading in the wrong (opposite) directions?
is a near two tonne caravan where we're heading?
oh, payload a paltry 160kg
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I think the 8' wide caravans are out there already, not just the weight factor think of the chaos on the roads of Devon & Cornwall. Personally i dont see what is to be gained from an 8', obviously fittings are going to be heavier, you need a wider table for starters unless you eat off your lap, bigger seat cushions etc, and a tank to tow it
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I think it’s a great shame that the market is driven by larger and larger vans with more and more features. Every year we travel to the continent and see many people with 20 year old vans, many with Eribas etc. just enjoying being away, living outdoors and visiting new areas. Yes, there are a few new, large, luxurious outfits but these are in the minority. I think these types of outfits are mainly to be found on Club sites so maybe it’s a bit of a UK thing rather than a general trend.
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It was not that many years ago that UK manufacturers were constrained by the width they could build to. As harmonisation with EU rules trickled through they started to build wider caravans. Initially it was to 7.6 wide and now to 8 foot wide. The increase in interior space is significant and also offers the possibility of different layouts. I wonder, if with a lot of people, they go for how the caravan looks and feels first and probably towing comes second. It does seem a bit counter intuitive at the very point in our history that the days of bigger diesel cars seem to be numbered that manufacturers are making bigger vans. Perhaps they are thinking that as towing becomes a bit more difficult in terms of suitable towcars that more people will use seasonal pitches. In that case the extra width will be very welcome?
David
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After 30 years of British built caravans, our last Elddis was the final nail in the coffin. Inside was very comfortable and the layout for us could not have been better, but because Elddis had stopped putting timber frames in the roof of the SOLID build, the van had more twisting in the body shell when on the move, which made every skylight in the van leak. We now have a German built Knaus starclass that we brought new 18 months ago, which has not been fault free, but the van itself is very well built and solid, so I may be able to tell you more in a couple of years time.
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When Eldiss caravans weigh less than Lunars you do wonder what they have cut out. I do agree they look great when new but given the fact they are consistently bottom of the PC surveys I would be reluctant to buy one although they are still there, unlike Lunar, if you need the guarantee.
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The strange thing is that our new Knaus Starclass - at 8' wide, actually has a MIRO 10kg lighter than our previous U3 Barcelona and contrary to BB's assertion above, it has a payload of, not 160kg, but 360kg. I'm still slightly baffled as to how they have done it because the construction - particularly the inside woodwork, looks very solid and not at all like the flimsy UK vans we looked at.
I agree that one has to be careful where it is towed and perhaps the country lanes of Devon and Cornwall aren't ideal - but we can live with that. There are plenty of places to visit with good access and with a bit of good route planning, it so far hasn't been a problem.
And, yes, David - the prospect of using it on a seasonal pitch when we get too old to tow regularly, was at the back of our minds when we bought it.
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Hi Hitchglitch. I especially agree with your last sentence. Personally, I'd go for a heavier caravan with a decent user payload, that is well built - and built to last. Perhaps I'm being synical, but I guess it'#s not within a manufacturers interest to make a caravan to last!! The longer they last the less often we will replace them......
David
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