Over the top prices
So it’s time to start thinking about sites for this year. We don’t normally do Club sites more CL sites. But to be honest the prices per night are getting ridiculous. We look to go about 40 mins from where we live as hubby still works so a Friday night quick getaway needs to be close.. Yes the traffic is horrendous at this time of night so , does anyone have any suggestions we are in a Motorhome and need electrics plus we have one small dog . Toilets and showers if possible. We are near Manchester ..Thanks
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What type of area are y ou interested in visiting? Should be able to come up with a couple of CLs when I know what you're looking for. How much are you prepared to pay for a CL, btw?
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Plus, are you North Manchester or South? I assume the former as you state Lancashire as your county. You could spend the weekend just going around the M60!
So if North then the Peak District would probably be out (or maybe not). So as Nellie says, we need a bit more info.0 -
Arrivakids, why do you NEED hook up just because you are in a MH?? there is only one way to reduce drastically your ppn. Go non EHU! I made the decision 6 years ago and have been enjoying £4 - £8 a night sites ever since - and some of the most beautiful sites I’ve been to. With solar panels, inverters and decent batteries, ( I now have a Lithium) it’s a breeze. We live on board as well as we ever did with EHU and paying £13- £16 a night. We use our Microwave, toaster and vacuum and have just bought a blender for the galley!! Why pay for someone else’s electricity when you can produce it yourself?. I got my investment back within 2 years. Another massive saving is refillable gas cylinders like gaslow, or Safefill! Look into it- You’ll find it very interesting I’m sure. The show is coming up- a great place to get all the info you need under one roof! Good luck.
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Very interesting. Can someone give me the start up capital cost of buying and installing solar panels, lithium batteries, an inverter, and gaslow or safefil system for a caravan please.
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Contact someone like CAk Tanks they should be able to help as they sell just about everything needed then plus the cost of fitting, ,but then how long will it take to get any sort of return on your "investment"hence why we would never go down that route unless the LV it was all installed in was to be a very long time ownership
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Just based on experience and reading some other forums.
Solar Panel £400-£500
Lithium Batteries £1,200+
Gaslow £400-£600 (1 or 2 bottle set up)
Inverter £300-£1000 (depending on make, size etc.)
These are fitted indicative costs, may be bale to save a few quid fitting yourself ET. Of course you save a hell of an amount on £5 a night sites to recoup the initial outlay
I am sure someone can get things cheaper and maybe a shareholders discount on certain refillable gas bottles though but at least its a start...
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Don't have the cost for everything Merve suggested but we did do the gas refill and the solar panel on the MH. Never did recoup the cost though before we sold the van
you have to use it a lot and always go off grid to make it worth while.Edit
These are fitted indicative costs, may be bale to save a few quid fitting yourself ET. Of course you save a hell of an amount on £5 a night sites to recoup the initial outlay.
However they are not always where you would like to be and if you have a MH not always suitable as they are on grass.
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Our 100w solar panel and a few fittings for it came in at a little over £100, this was a DIY job plus the van was already geared up for a panel. Offset that against five years worth of sites (some EHU some not) it has given us the freedom of choice. There are still people who don't have SPs but who go off grid, you don't need a lot of expensive equipment.
Apologies to the OP as I've just re-read it and they need electrics.
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What about Ribchester? Commercial site, within walking distance of Ribchester, with shops, museum, river and in the middle of lots of footpaths for walking. Dale Hey Farm
Stayed there for 4 nights last July, when we were having new CH put in, and liked it. £18 per night, site has quite extensive woodland for dog walking too. Our cat also liked it there
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I didn't think otherwise MichealT
I think its down to how often you use it off grid and how long you keep the van (MH or Caravan)
We rarely went off grid, 1 night maybe here and there but we could do that even without the SP or refill gas.
The new caravan has a SP fitted as standard, we haven't bothered with the gas though, we don't think its worth it for the amount we use, we prefer to be on sites abroad. We don't often go away in this country.
If we change our mind the OH will fit it as he did for the MH. When we go for longer periods abroad we always have the option of buying a bottle of gas over there if needed.
Just an aside we have noticed on another chat forum we use that members are saying LPG is getting harder to find to fill bottles/tanks.
Don't know how true that is we only ever 'refilled' twice in the time we had it, once at home here (the initial fill) and twice in Belgium both times it was only a few litres.
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Usually 80w - is this enough to be off grid for a weekend?
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Thank you Michael for answering my earlier question, though the cost is even worse than I feared.
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I fitted a single bottle Gaslow system in our caravan, later added a second bottle, the single bottle one was just under £200 at the time, about 6-7 years back. Not fitted as much to save money as to enable us to caravan abroad for a few months without having a problem with running out of gas.
We also often go to Germany where EHU is frequently metered and the KWHs expensive, so we use quite a bit of gas rather than electricity.
We do not have a solar panel, but have done the odd night without EHU while travelling between sites without a problem. I would think that in summer the type of solar panel fitted as standard would keep your battery topped up.
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Here we go again! The only reason I mention Safefill is because I use Safefill- period!! I happen to think that Safefill is an excellent product and has certainly saved me more than the cylinders cost. I certainly have no commercial interest in Safefill. Can we stop the comments now chaps- it’s becoming a little boring. Thanks.
Now, the cost of going Non EHU. Certainly, one has to think carefully before leaping in but for me it was a no brainer. I had similar feelings to the OP 6 yrs ago and have never looked back. Certainly, SPs are cheaper now and of greater efficiency. Photonic Universe do some very good panels. Anything above 120w is non EHU territory IMHO- I have 135w and will only increase on that. An inverter, depending on whether you want pure sine wave or modified sine wave, will be £200 - £400 approx but always buy one that will do the job easily - ie won’t be working at the max- mine is 2000w. PSW. The Lithium- well, there’s the rub. Not cheap at about 1k for a 100ah but against lead acid they compare favourably as you won’t be replacing it for 20 - 25 years, and the advantages are numerous like weight, no fumes, can be virtually discharged with no ill effect etc In conclusion, I would invite you to watch the YouTube video that I made with Roadpro. Put in the search engine something like ‘Installing a Lithium Battery on a caravan’ or similar and you should find it. It really all depends on how much use you are putting your van to. A couple of fortnights a year won’t cut it, but, as has been said, it’s not just about saving wads of cash, it’s also about freedom and choice of sites and , may I say, with the SP, keeping that or those batteries in tip top condition all year round! For me, it’s been a revelation and the new technologies have moved the ground for caravanners. Hopefully, the club is running a full and unbiased article ion non EHU camping in the August mag this year. You can also, thanks to the foresight of John, at Newton Grove CL in Oxfordshire, try non EHU by borrowing his ‘rig’ consisting of SP, batteries etc- he’s converted quite a few! I know that I will never go back to the orange cable if I can help it- I haven’t hooked up for 6 years and that should tell you something- best of luck to all those who want to give it a go.
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"Here we go again! The only reason I mention Safefill is because I use Safefill- period!! I happen to think that Safefill is an excellent product and has certainly saved me more than the cylinders cost. I certainly have no commercial interest in Safefill. Can we stop the comments now chaps- it’s becoming a little boring. Thanks."
Come on, Merve, where’s your sense of humour? You'll have people thinking MT touched a nerve.😀
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Hey Tinny, nice to hear from you but you can only laugh so much! I have a great sense of humour- you need it on here! I can only comment on Safefill because that’s the one I know about and they have been trailblazers in the LPG market. I do know Neil and John at Safefill but I have no financial or commercial interest. I don’t think one could give a true and honest appraisal if one did have.
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I reproduce an article that appeared in the ACCEO magazine last year. It might help the newbies who are thinking of non EHU to see the road I travelled. It is not meant to tread on any toes so please, those of you who are passionate about the hook up, please don’t take offence!
I have been caravanning since 1985 and up to 2012 I had been happy with the 'status quo' as indeed, we all were, and it would appear the majority still are. That was if you wanted everything working without worry on your caravan, you joined the queue to collect your Calor cylinders and had a 240v hook up stuck in the side of your van. That was the norm. I was happy to do it as I knew no different but with 4 kids, I always had an eye on the price of my caravanning. We did do the odd bit of non EHU caravanning but only for a weekend and always on my knees praying that the battery lasted and the red LED didn't come on which it invariably did!
For me, my journey to 'power independence' started in 2011. Unfortunately, it wasn't because I was a bright young thing with an endless knowledge of modern tech and gadgets, It was for more basic reasons. Although still a few years off retirement, I had started to look at my pension 'pot' and it was slowly dawning on me that the snatch and grab hits by the then Labour government on the private pension funds were going to have a serious impact on my retirement years, as indeed, it had had on so many. The promises of the amounts I would be living on melted away virtually before my eyes. It was a situation many thousands were in, and, if I was to caravan at the intensity that I had promised myself post retirement, I had to find some way of either upping my contributions or finding some way of reducing my costs for this most wonderful of pastimes. But how? The first option was not an option and I had serious doubts that I could shave even a small amount off my caravanning as prices for CC 'Certificated Locations' with Hook Up which were the type of sites I normally headed for were fairly standard in pricing. I had never, at this point, ventured onto a non hook up site for any length of time as the only way of powering the van would have been a generator or the vehicle and I wasn't going down that road! Then there were the sites owned and run by the Caravan Club - although lovely, they were definitely out, not only because of cost, but because it just wasn't the type of caravanning I wanted to do. Lines of regimented caravans, pegs and the early morning walk to the washroom just wasn't my bag! So things looked pretty bleak from where I stood.
The year passed with me considering my options from time to time and slowly, a plan started to take shape. Although I am by no means what you would describe as a 'techie' I knew enough about what was going on in the techie world to make well informed decisions. The photovoltaic cell was coming of age and the mighty Solar Panel had really started to make its presence felt on the world technology stage but more than that, -the technology had improved immensely from the first ones produced. Now, instead of direct sunlight producing power they had improved to the point where just light would generate amps. What if I could make my own power and survive on 12v? It would mean sacrifices but beggars can't be choosers and if I could, it would stop the need for the umbilical cord of the Electric Hook Up and allow me to visit sites at a third of the price! Yes, I would still need to use rental cylinders and they were not cheap having seen them rise year on year but that was just how it was. There wasn't anything else on the market so I couldn't save money on gas cylinders - so, as it had been for years when swopping a rental cylinder it was 'pay up and shut up' as I believe the saying goes! I wouldn't be paying for electric but I would be using more gas but there would be a definite saving. The figures definitely added up so I pressed on with my plan.
In November 2012, I put my money where my mouth was and had a 135w panel fitted to the roof of my caravan. A second 110ah battery was fitted and Wow, what a revelation, for the first time since I had started caravanning, I found myself no longer running backwards and forwards to the storage site with a newly charged battery to keep my alarm and tracker alive -my battery was fully charged all the time - How much time and diesel was that saving me? - this was working! However, someone else obviously thought my caravan was very nice and 3 months later, my caravan was stolen from a CaSSOA, panel and all! - So I started again.
In May 2013, having purchased my present caravan, I went to the first 'rally' I had ever been to. With my SP on the roof, I was very confident that power was not an issue as I went non EHU and I was right - power wasn't an issue! This was at the Caravan Clubs 'National' at Belvoir Castle and, it was there, that my plans to cut my caravanning costs received another massive boost. On wondering among the various trade stalls, I spotted some cylinders that were similar in appearance to cylinders I had seen elsewhere - made of a resin type material. For a start, I didn't bother asking about them but had made a mental note to return to that stall and ask questions about them which I did. I soon discovered that what I was looking at were Safefill cylinders- these I could fill myself, and they were fitted with the same connection as gas powered cars had, but these were probably even safer with the same 80% cutoff and check valve- I discovered that these cylinders had only just entered the market place in the previous 2 or 3 years- this was manner from heaven!But- it was even better than that, you see, Safefill had, in one foul swoop, made the illegal filling of steel cylinders an irrelevance! There was now no need for Mr Fred Karno and his dodgy valve bought from some equally dodgy geezer on the Internet to illegally fill (and commit theft by the way) steel cylinders, which, lets face it, reflects badly on all of us whether we like it or not! This was about OVERT filling and not COVERT filling. This was called Safefill-and that's exactly what it was!
Anyway, I thanked the Patron Saint of caravanning - with a Safefill cylinder on board I now saw my overall costs drop again- this time on the gas side of things as it were- what a marriage- Solar Panels and Safefill cylinders- this was almost to good to be true! Prayers were definitely being answered! I bought it there and then - one of the best investments I have ever made as It just keeps on saving me money! So now I could make my own electric and had my OWN cylinder with no more heavy rental charges- I was now paying for the actual gas- not what it was stored in - that was a result! OK, I couldn't use my microwave or indeed my slow cooker, or my electric blanket but from where I was a few months earlier, I had made a quantum leap.
The next year saw me at Arley Hall at the 2014 National but only as a day visitor. Not a bad decision as it turned out as it was a very wet weekend with mud and wellies everywhere! However, again, it was while I was wondering around the trade stands that I came across my next part of the jigsaw. In a casual conversation with a company selling all things electrical- batteries, sat navs, reversing cameras etc, I explained how happy I was to have achieved what I had over the past few months but that I had lost the use of my microwave but that I couldn't have everything. He asked me what I had on board. I told him. I'll never forget his reply - "With what you have, why the hell haven't you got an inverter?" Although I knew of inverters and what they did, I hadn't at that time considered one "Would an inverter help?" I asked, knowing what the reply would be. Well you'll have your microwave back and it'll power other things if you want them!" Without going into a long diatribe I was convinced and bought a 2000w Pure Sine Wave inverter. It wasn't cheap but what I wanted was to be able to run the microwave and other things that I now realised I could have on board with ease! I didn't want it working at its max - It was big enough to handle the large ampages and it was Pure Sine Wave which meant I didn't have to worry about any sensitive equipment I would have with me like phones, tablets etc, - if they needed a pure sine wave, it was there. I had it professionally fitted by a friend of a friend and I have to say the electrician/electronics engineer did a first class job - and then the fun really started.
June of 2014 saw us leave for Devon where, if I had this right, this would be the most economical caravanning I had ever had and it would be the first full test of the system I had pinned so many hopes on. To make it even better, my 20year old Toyota Hilux Surf tow car at that time had a conversion fitted to it and was powered by recycled veg oil which I got for nothing from people who just wanted to get rid of it! - and I could travel anywhere for 40p - and that was just because I had to use diesel to warm the engine to operating temperature! Please don't start putting veg oil in your diesel cars- this was a proper conversion!
Anyway, the fortnight was a total success. Everything worked as it should including the microwave, vacuum cleaner and the thing I really didn't want to do without- the electric toaster! We have now added a blender to that list! There I was, sitting in a field, away from the world with not an orange cable in sight and enjoying all the comforts of home at £5 a night! I found it difficult to believe. I had to pinch myself! My Safefill was just as important as the Solar panel, providing cooking, heating the water, and really importantly as it was a very warm period, driving the fridge!! The Solar Panel refilled what had been used from the batteries and kept us in power and fully charged. The cost? £70 for site fees instead of the normal £196 (£14 a night, 20p of which I estimate would have been for the electricity used had it been an EHU site) - £126 saved and my Safefill was virtually paid for in saved fees from just one fortnight in Devon! Since those far off days and many many nights away off grid, I have changed the 2 Lead Acid batteries for a single 100ah Lithium at a quarter of the weight and with the same power- or even more! Yes, it wasn’t cheap but the savings outweigh the cost! So, I was happy with what I had achieved- I didn’t have to cut down my caravanning in my autumn years and the OH loves it too. She is a barometer of the comfort on board and there are no complaints from that quarter.
What an amazing time of invention and innovation the last few years have been for the caravanner and his ability not only to be able to create his own power but save power too! - Solar panels, LED lighting (which I can't praise highly enough) highly efficient power saving devices, new materials for batteries making it possible for them to hold more charge at much less weight, and last, but certainly not least, - the brilliant Safefill cylinder! - what would our forbears have paid for being able to go into the wild completely independent in power? And the future can only get better for the non EHU caravanner as batteries improve and SPs become even more efficient and best of all, when we can all walk into any LPG outlet and know we can fill our own gas cylinders and save hugely. The technology in every field moves on to improve what was there before so move over old heavy rusty steel cylinders, you're time has gone, there's a new kid on the block which are lighter, cleaner, doesn't mark your van with rust, you can see how much gas you have at a glance- What more would you want? Oh yes, and one more thing- much safer with inquisitive children- open a valve on a Safefill cylinder and nothing escapes unless it's attached to a tail! With grand kids about that was a big plus! The new technology is here and not a moment too soon for me!
As far as my 'losses' were concerned, they were solved one by one. The slow cooker was replaced with a Mr Ds Thermal Cooker, which, again, saves power by cooking the contents in their own heat - (raised to temperature by gas from my Safefill of course ) the modern equivalent of the haybox, and what's the problem with a hot water bottle at night if things are a little nippy in Autumn or winter? - not that it should be with the brilliant Alde heating using much cheaper gas and using only 1 amp to power the pump! There has never been a time in the history of caravanning where things have been made so convenient for us power wise and at a cost that blows the old ways of a few years ago apart! I often ask”Why would anyone want to have an orange cable anymore?”- and why oh why would anyone want to rent cylinders of gas where 70-75% is the cost of hiring the cylinder? I believe passionately that if we want to change the system that has had us straight jacketed for so many years, we need to buy things like Solar Panels and Safefill cylinders so we make it impossible for the LPG giants to ignore us. Thinking outside the box has certainly paid dividends for me. - Happy caravanning.3 -
I think you’ll find that the prices quoted here are at the very top end of the scale and some are fantasy- £1000 for an inverter?? It’s a 12 volt system- you won’t need anything approaching that. £1,200 for a Lithium? You can knock off £200 from that. Even at £1000 - they compare very favourably with lead acid as they last 20- 25 years. I think shopping around would pay dividends . Reading the thread, I absolutely agree that the length of time you keep your van and, more importantly- how much you use it has a bearing on costs. However, if you are fortunate enough to change your van for a spanker every couple of years there is still the fact that everything is transferable to the new van- even the solar panel which can be of the ‘suitcase type, inverter and battery/s can be swapped over easily. Once the investment has been made, you don’t have to buy it again. The time is coming when a new van will grace our pitch on the storage site. The transfer costs will be minimal. - and another 6 or 7 years of offgrid, money saving years. It’s a personal choice and one that I haven’t regretted at all- in fact, the further I went, the more I liked what I was doing.
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"You can also, thanks to the foresight of John, at Newton Grove CL in Oxfordshire, try non EHU by borrowing his ‘rig’ consisting of SP, batteries etc- he’s converted quite a few! I know that I will never go back to the orange cable if I can help it- I haven’t hooked up for 6 years and that should tell you something- best of luck to all those who want to give it a go."
Thank you Merve for the mention.
This year I have just finished upgrading our Solar Unit with a 160w monocrystalline Solar Panel and a new a new 12v OPzV Tubular Gel deep-cycle on board battery.
The original 80w panel has been mounted on a frame with a 10a solar charge controller.
Both will be available for visitors to use. See image below or our website.
“So gain your freedom” give one of the 410 Off-Grid CLs site a try!3
