French Toll Roads for over 3.5T MH's
Has anyone out there used the TISPL system for high (>3m ) and/or heavy (>3.5t) motor-homes?
Advantages/disadvantages?
Ian
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don't have a tag of any sort (yet?....) but 'generally' all single axle MHs will be Classe Deux.....
do you desperately need a tag, and if you have one will this move costs automatically upwards if you have to declare weights and height?
i don't know, just curious.
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Could you not use the standard Tag rather than a specialist HGV one? as used by cars and motorhomes up to 3500kgs? Surely all it would do is put you into the Class three category. Although you suggest your motorhomes is taller than 3 metres and heavier than 3500kgs you don't mention how much taller and heavier it is. Perhaps if you are thinking HGV it is a really large motorhome? The systems installed at the toll booth will determine the class of toll. I can understand how they measure height as there will be sensors in place, although how these work in relation to you being a few mm over the 3 metres I am not sure. Weight is more difficult because I am not sure they have equipment in place to weigh. It is also possible to have two identical motorhomes but with different max weights if one has been upgraded?
On the issue of convenience my answer would be a Tag every time!!!
David
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If you are travelling quite a bit on Autoroutes a tag is invaluable. No fumbling around finding a credit card, OH trying to stretch out etc. Some of the bigger pèage are automatic, you don’t even stop. They are quite cheap and there is automatic billing.
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Some of the largest motorhomes are actually Classe 4 - meaning the tolls costs are an arm and a leg (and another leg for some of the tunnels and bridges).
Here's a classification breakdown so you can see what tolls you will pay:
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Ian, ValDa is of course right on her point, but I would just add that the largest motorhomes may in some circumstances have to use the motorways, as they will be banned from taking the "old road" through many towns in France which frequently have a 3500kg limit,
But whether you use an autoroute tag or pay as you go with a bank card is entirely up to you, but tags of all sorts will definitely work.
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Hi BB,
Not sure what your “generally” covers, but not “all single axle MH’s” are Class 2. My single axle is Class 3, at 4,250 kgs. So, does “generally” mean all the rest, all those mini-motorhomes?!
Hope you are still enjoying those long days of sunshine. My mate who is in BP in an Eriba is complaining about how cold it is! I told him to buy a decent Brit van with central heating!
BillC
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Hi Bill, is your van well over 3m tall?
AFAIK, I agree with David in that weight can't be measured unless it's obtained from the vehicle docs via ANPR software.
we are 2.89m tall and, although we run the van at 3500kg, it was plated at 3850kg from the factory...
so, the van hasn't physically changed (only a paper change) so how would I be charged more if I'd left it at 3850kg.
im sure it's height (well over 3m) or no of axles (obvious) that drive the charges.
have you ever pressed the button and said 'classe deux s'il vous plait', this is usually enough to get a class two toll charge unless very high or three axles.
yes, weather a bit up and down at BP today....and cold at night, as expected in January....Tai Chi on the beach this morning was sharp but sunny, just warning up now as I'm sat out typing this.
we are here till 9th Feb, then down to the Algarve.
PS....I'm pretty sure our previous Carthago was Classe Deux and that was 7.5m and 4250kg...again 2.89m high (under 3m) so perhaps height (or lack of it) is the main driver...if weight can't be measured and documents not referenced?
the latest Kon Tiki is either 3.02m or 3.13m depending on model...is yours the same?
i also noticed the Autotrails are 3.03m which must be frustrating if charged the higher fee even for a 3500 van.....?
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Hi BB,
Our current van is 2.98m, so just inside the limit. Yes, the new KTs are longer and higher, which I think is a big mistake by Swift. We would have been in the market for the new van idc, but with these stats will have to think seriously about it, mainly because of ferry prices, but also tolls.
It may be possible to go through the manned booth and try the Class 2 rate, but if you were applying for a Class 2 Tag you need to have a weight within the 3500 kg limit, 3m or under for height and these are the only two restrictions, not axles, but I don’t think you will get a Tag Axle under 4t in weight. Even though they can’t tell your weight at the booth, you can’t lie about your weight to get a Tag, but more on this when we meet up.
Tai Chi indeed, with all those women on the beech and you felt the cold! Say no more!
BillC
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we don't have a tag so havent declared weight to anyone (except on V5). Same with our heavier van, no tag, so perhaps there's a loophole.
we've never paid anything other than class 2 even on the bigger Carthago. I don't see how they can do it without getting weight info from somewhere?....and it won't be at the toll booth, no equipment.
so, as long as under 3m and single axle, class two every time...in my experience.
all Tai Chi ers this morning, of either sex, were pretty well wrapped up. advanced class at 11:30 for some....I cycled up the mountain behind us instead..
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For what its worth ...
OP - if your unit is marginal on the classes and cost matters then I'd pay at the barrier and argue if overcharged.
We're Car & Caravan 3.7t 2 +1 axles, 2.8m high = class 2.
We just pay at the booth the requested amount if correct or lower. We prefer to know in advance for ease, and to check what charge it should be, from our printed out via michelin route plan (tick 'Caravan' in 'options' section on left side).
Would fully accept the Tag is easier but a very finite & trusting method of card payment at a later stage based on your pre-stated stats & assuming the systems & sensors dont overcharge you. Surely regardless of your stated details the sensors will charge you what they think if say you fit an air con unit and now exceed 3m ?
NB: - We have been lower charged on quite a few times. We pay what is asked.
We have successfully challenged over-charging regularly even though we are clearly simple class 2.
A faulty ticket, which machine wouldn't accept, saved us e32 when we buzzed and paid the charge requested by nice monsiuer.
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There is an added advantage of having a Tag when you are a motorhomer because my wife finds it quite difficult to get to either the ticket issuing machine or the payment part as the vehicle is too high up which often meant getting out the cab. I can only say that having used a Tag over about five years not (also used by my son solo) I have never had cause to question what I have been charged for tolls.
David
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...but when you applied for your tag David, didn't you tell them it was under 3500kg and under 3m high? so little chance of being charged anything but class two.
and this is the point...if the Op applies for a tag and stares he's over 3.5t or over 3m high then it's pretty certain he will be charged the higher rate.
however, in our experience, even with our heavier van (4250kg) we always got charged class two (as long as under 3m) as the booth can't weigh the van...
so, while there might be a slight advantage in breezing through the tolls, it's certainly more than cancelled out if being charged the higher rate.
with this smaller van, we have no weight/height issues and I may go for a tag at some point, but with a heavier van I'd rather go a little more slowly through the booth for class two than 'fly' through and be charged a lot more...
from Nantes to Irun using the Autoroutes, it cost €60+ from memory, that's expensive enough thanks.....increasing this significantly would surely be more than annoying if tolls are needed to maintain pace.
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I bought an ATMB tag when we were towing and simply transferred it to the motorhome. I don’t recall ever being asked what type of vehicle I had during the application process. I always assumed that the toll amount was done by sensors at the toll gate.
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...but when you applied for your tag David, didn't you tell them it was under 3500kg and under 3m high? so little chance of being charged anything but class two.
BB
My memory might not be what it was but I don't recall having to declare what size vehicle I was going to use the Tag for. My understanding was that the toll booth would decide what class I was in and charge me accordingly. Checking the original instructions, whilst it only illustrates class 1,2 and 5 (5 motorbikes) there are no specific instructions that it can't be used for other classes but of course I have not put that to the test. Things may have changed since 5 years ago.
David
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David, I was replying to Bill's (KB) comment and assumed you had don't the same...ie, he applied for a tag of the 'correct' rate (over....3.5t)
"but if you were applying for a Class 2 Tag you need to have a weight within the 3500 kg limit, 3m or under for height and these are the only two restrictions...."
...where he had obviously had to state his weight....4250kg....which is why (I assume) he pays the higher rate....
whereas with our 4250kg van, similar height, we had no 'pre defined' class and only ever paid class two.....as (again, I assume) the booth can't read weight although might be able to read height.
in that case, it's perfectly possible for an over 3.5t van to be class two until it is either higher than 3m or has a tag axle config.
again, if that is true, I certainly wouldn't have a tag...
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When buying a tag from SANEF you are not required to say what vehicle you have, but you do have to agree to the current Terms & Conditions. That’s where they have you, because the Ts & Cs stipulate clearly the Classes and weights and measures.
The U.K. office of SANEF, now Emovis, cannot cater for a Class 3 Tag for vehicles over 3500kg and suggest contacting Eurotoll. However, Eurotoll only like to deal with companies and Fleet Contracts, not individuals. SANEF did say about a year ago they were working on a Claas 3 Tag, but have not got one yet.
Also, I have a Blue Badge and if I go to a manned booth or one with intercom, I go as Class 1.
BillC
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in that case, it's perfectly possible for an over 3.5t van to be class two until it is either higher than 3m or has a tag axle config.
For 4 years we had a Hymer tag axle, 5t, we were never charged anything other than Classe 2. It was under 3m though, and we always thought that was the reason, so the fact it was a tag axle wasn't detected. It would by a (wo)man in a booth obviously, but seemingly not by a machine. We don't use motorways a great deal anyway, but did use the A75 with the Millau viaduct a number of times and were always charged Classe 2.
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NO!
This is a quote from the Emovis web site, referring to motorhome:
“France - Liber-t tag
As long as your vehicle is lower than 3 metres and less than 3.5 tonnes GVW you can use any non height restricted lane that has the Liber-t symbol illuminated. A vehicle of this size falls into the Class 2 fee structure. If your vehicle is larger than this then please contact our sister company Eurotoll.
Spain and Portugal - VIA-T tag
Providing your motorhome weighs less than 3.5 tonnes you can use the VIA-T lane”TAG axle vehicles are never referred to in the T&Cs, but there is one in the diagram showing the drawings of the different vehicles and their classes.
I don’t think there is much interest in the spec’ of vehicles at the toll booths and I have never heard of anyone being stopped to discuss what class they are.
they obviously make so much money it’s not worth the hassle for a few euros,
BillC
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Thanks for all the info and advice, just what I needed to confirm my thoughts, the tag would only save a few moments at the barrier and the likelihood is the charge would be the same or lower at the automatic booths, depending how the measurement is taken.
I'm going to ask a similar question about the Austrian GO-Box but ill do that on a new thread.
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I have used a Sanef tag for something like 6 or 7 years initially on a car/caravan outfit but for the past 21/2 years on a Swift 669 tag axle motorhome which weighs in at 5300 kilo and is 2,98 metres high with the air-con - length is a smidging under 9metres with the bike rack.
The first trip abroad in the motorhome we left the tag at home believing that the toll charge would be at class 3 and being aware that the Sanef tag is class 2 only I wasn’t up for trying to fudge “it”. Without exception on this first trip in 2016 the charge was class 2 the length and breath of France - auto and manned booths alike. From the middle of 2016 I have used the Sanef tag exclusively and been charged class 2, never any more and never a query. I formed the view during the first trip in 2016 that as I was being charged class 2 “every time” there was not a “fraud” issue using the tag which is what has been done since. The distance travelled in foreign parts is around 4k or 5k miles a year with a goodly percentage being in France. I can’t with all honesty say at what rate the toll charge has been in Italy & Spain only that we seemed to be “digging deep” into the holiday funds in Italy.
From conversations with multiple motorhomers in foreign parts it would appear that it is the height that determines the cost and not the weight or configuration of the motorhome. The Kon-tiki has its maximum height at the rear corners so I am guessing that measurement at the toll booth is on entering the toll “area”.
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