New Caravan Quality
We'll I'm now on my 3rd Bailey caravan and now to report its quality. I part-ex'd our Series 3 Cadiz for the new Series 4 Cadiz.
1 day prior to picking up the new caravan the dealer phoned to say they want to reject the caravan back to the factory. This being that during the application of the paint protection it was discovered heavy scratches on the top rear area of near side panel where the factory tried to cover up.
One week later and just before Xmas I took delivery of the replacement which we looked forward to as we were off to Longleat for the New Year. Then we discover the oven wouldn't work. Then towing home in the rain water ingress from the front skylight. So back to the dealer for repairs. Next outing no problems, next outing in hot weather and couldnt get the door to unlatch properly to get in so back to the dealer to fix. Off to Cornwall for 3 weeks and it was the start of the hot weather in mid June onwards everything working but then notice the front panel is coming away from the bonding all along underneath the front windows. Back to the dealer for repairs who also fixed squeaky brakes. Now noticed the plastic trim along the side bed panel is short by about 5mm.
So how do we get the club to run a survey on new caravan quality up to 12 mth old and report on manufacturers and issues. Otherwise the manufacturers will continue to build and ship shoddy workmanship and get the customer and dealers to resolve issues they have designed and produced. But if the club can use it's power of membership and rate which manufacturer produces better quality than others. Just like car surveys have helped improve new car quality.
Something needs to be done when you look at the cost of purchase on new caravans.
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I think that everyone who has any power at all is just turning deaf ear's to everything that we say on here, but I think nothing will change while they are selling all the vans they can make, but the claims on warrantee must cost them a fortune. We have given up on UK built caravans after 30 years and brought a new German caravan this year.
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Well done. It’s been evident for years. As I said elsewhere, only the law is on the side of the customer.
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The answer is not to buy but, as long as we idiots keep buying the same old thrown together rubbish, so they'll continue to build shoddy goods.
Our contracts are always with the supplying dealers and their reputations are rarely any better than the manufacturers. The clubs, both of them, are in deep with the industry which has the NCC as its trade organisation. That’s why I say the customer can rely on no one other than the law.
This has been going on for decades with build quality gradually declining. Better qualified people than you and I have tried to take on manufacturers and dealers to no avail. The only thing that seems to get a result is rejection of the goods and court action if necessary. It doesn't pay to mess around giving the retailers chance to resolve issues as they'll just pass the buck and string you along. If there’s an issue then go for the jugular - use the law to your advantage.
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I’m sure they’ll all claim ISO accreditation for what it’s worth. Each constructor is as bad as the next and I’ve lost count of the number of times over the years I’ve heard comments such as those in your OP, Hamgar. Cynic, me?😖
Did I not see that Kabe have bought Coachman, either in full or in part?
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ISO accreditation is worth a lot, especially if a ISO accredited manufacturer is reported to ISO for continued poor quality. This is why the automotive industry improved dramatically. Its not just a once every 2yrs accreditation but they can have inspections whenever I SO determine especially if ISO keep getting complaints about a I SO accredited manufacturer.
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Yeah, right. I worked under for an ISO accredited company too. 😀
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Hamgar be careful for what you wish for
Here it is. Leisure vechicle survey
I have posted a link to remind people what a complete travesty it was and is. This in my opinion was not due to incompetence, but a deliberate and successful attempt to make the results useless to anyone making an informed buying decision.
It is the job of a Caravan manufacturer to make money for its owners. Unfortunately according to the Chairman of the club “ We are not a campaigning organisation”. So I am afraid Hamgar asking the club to run a survey is a waste of time, because they won’t publish the answers.
Ps Practical caravan magazine publish an annual survey where they do name manufacturers. Not perfect by any means but the best that’s out there.
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Agree with TW. A paper exercise that does not necessarily improve product quality. The closest to product quality will probably be a tick sheet to show that operatives have received what the company considers adequate training and some methods sheets in the back of the drawer.
It is intended to improve customer experience. We are mot the customer however
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Absolutely agree with everything said above. Practical Caravan magazine recently published a survey on owners' satisfaction with new caravans and as you can imagine - it made for pretty dismal reading, particularly when looking at British built 'vans.
The largest UK manufacturers (Swift) sent out 25% of their vans with faults. Other manufacturers didn't fair much better and yet nothing seems to be done about it, as has previously been mentioned.
It seems that it's not just the caravans which are at fault but the chassis too. Alko has also come under scrutiny.
It seems to me the NCC is a toothless tiger and individuals are left to fight their own legal battles. I doubt a viewing on Watchdog would help either (I wonder if Matt Allright's had any problems with his 'van?)
Until the government steps in, the industry will not change and buying a caravan of merchantable quality will remain a lottery.
Caveat Emptor is never more appropriate than when purchasing a caravan and I was advised, at least £100 of the purchase is by credit card or on finance. "Keep some of your hard earned under the mattress in this case, thus strengthening your consumer rights"
Buying a caravan is probably the second or third largest purchase the majority of us will make.....let the buyer beware
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With the CEO taking freebies (trip to Turkey) and the advertising revenue the club gets do you really think our club is going to look after its members in regard to van quality. Sorry to say your on your own on this one.
As an aside, in the club mag for August, Nick Harding reviewed a Lunar Cassini, what caught my eye was a build quality of 68%, his complaint was " its white all over" what a load of tosh. I was thinking he found all the things real people find with their brand new LV's.
What the club needs to do is the same as motoring mags, get vans in and treat them to long term test, but then pigs may really fly.
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ISO 9001 accreditation.
What does that mean, it's not a compulsory standard in any industry. As a company you pay to have those few words on your letterhead, when your inspected its a paperwork trial. Yes you are meant to live up to the standard, but if you don't what next, you get chucked out and save money. Forgive my cynicism but I've seen too many accreditation's that are absolutely meaningless in the real world.
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I read an article the other day whereby a couple had recently rejected a brand new £92,000 Swift-supplied Airstream Colorado as they found the quality of the van and its internal fittings to be poor.
It seems that money can't buy you happiness.
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Most sensible organisations that wish to be accredited do so solely because their customer base requires it. Usually the Quality Assurance scheme they put in place merely echoes their current working practices and puts in place a paper trail. It does not bring about any quality improvements to the end product only shows that they have followed the normal procedures even if that involves joining components with inadequate screws and rusty nails!
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When we bought our latest c/van our dealer phoned to say it had been delivered,would we like to have a look at it before it went into their workshop for PDI,
The tick sheet from the factory to say what had been "inspected"was on one of the seats,it could be seen by the way it had been filled in that the ticks had all been entered in one go not after each check,
The salesman advised that they ignore the sheet and do their own inspection as they do a proper PDI rather than hope, as some do,that if faults are found by the customer they can then claim for warranty work from the manufacturer
We had already noticed two cupboard doors not fitting, when we collected the van the handover took about 45mins,and were given a sheet to advise what the DPI had involved,
It was out of all the caravans and motor caravans we have had over the now over 50yrs of buying LVs the most confidence building experiance
Even then there was a mod that came from the factory to replace most of the upholstery, (we have a complete spare set at home)
Other warranty work that has been needed has been with bought in fittings all made "over there" and as fitted to the majority of LVs built in any EU country
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If taken seriously things like ISO can be of a benefit to the manufacturer not only as a sign of standards but also tightening up of internal paper trails. A couple of points I have made on this subject is, If you the manufacturer make a bad product and set your QA around that practice then providing you have met those standards at audit time then hey presto you have consistently met those standards of making a poor product!! Second most organisations self audit most of the time, in this day of job preservation who is going to argue against the information they provide!! When a company gets an external audit that's the time you should see things change.
As already said in other posts all volume manufacturers are looking at getting product out the door to met demand. What has not been said is they have to sell at a profit and to remain competitive, they have screwed the supply base as far as they can on price (I am in said supply chain!!) so now they are looking at cost of build or production savings. Look back 20 or 30 years to the automotive industry, we are now in that same position where we are in some cases going to get something that does not work properly and has not been fitted or manufactured correctly. Anything now is manufactured to see it out of the warranty periods with a whole host of caveats that gives manufacturers wiggle room to get out of claims hence keeping their QA audit results high.
IMHO, its pot luck chaps, am afraid to say you need to pray that you get the good one and some other poor sucker gets the not so good one!! All the time we the user generally wants more for less the manufacturer will have to do what they can to meet that demand and stay in business.
One past point, in days gone by you heard the term 'Fit for use' being used. A much stronger term today is 'Fit, Form and Function; it carries more weight when arguing your point.
Rant over, now I'm going to stick some trim back in place on my under 1 year old Swift!!
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I agree with what you say TW the law is on our side, but do we really need all the hassle and stress of waiting for the next thing to go wrong, we had four years of taking our van back for repairs, that was all the fault of the people who built it, so in the end we had enough and brought elsewhere, it's our money and our choice.
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I do not mind naming them as we have over the years been customers depending on what type or make of LV we have wanted, it is GT caravans of Hatfield Hertfordshire and they are Bailey and Coachman dealers, they are not normally at any shows, as they get enough buisiness without having to "encourage" sales,and they are also a well respected towbar fitting and trailer sales /hire company,,
Just hope they satisfy others the same as us
When we get home this week, I will now have to see what I can blag from them for this post
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with regard to shoddy build, I read the AS forum (and occasionally comment, much to the annoyance of the mods, as I stand up for the quality issues being reported.....)
the stock reply for issues (even those repeated over and over again) is 'take it to Mark at Willersey, he's wonderful at fixing things....."
now my view, again which for some reason annoys the mods, is that Mark should be kicking Production's ass from one end of the plant to thenother to eradicate these issues at source, saving customers the endless hassle of factory/dealer visits at their expense...
BTW not just AS (it's an example from forum I use) others are poor...
Swift also have issues but, at least, their staff (some very senior) frequent the forum and are prepared to respond in the face of serious issues.....and for that, I praise them.....
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@Jonray 57, It is most unfair to describe the NCC as a “toothless tiger” . I think that they do a brilliant job. They have even convinced people that they have some sort of quasi official status. They don’t they are a trade body, they represent the trade their members pay a fee to join. It is not their function to represent the interests of the caravan buying public. Trouble is that there doesn’t appear anyone who is prepared to represent the interests of the punters ie you and me. And this includes organisations that charge £51 a year to be a member
As they say in Private Eye, trebles all round.
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At Broadway site they have numerouse S A S pitches and since Auto Sleepers stopped being a family run concern, they have become far busier,as like most of the original quality UK made companies could not compete with the buying public's increasing demands for "cheaper"products with more gizmos,so were bought out by big companies to get a quality name,Autocruise was another well made product until the Swift group bought them
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what is an S A S pitch? Who dares goes on it, wins?
being 'busy' doesn't excuse microwaves/shelves held in with four tiny self tappers which fall out...along with said MW...cure...mostly fixed by owners...
it also doesn't excuse fitting PSU units that control the solar charge but take out more charge to run itself than it puts into the battery...hence owners with flat vehicle batteries...cure....turn off the PSU....but then it doesn't direct charge to the vehicle battery......er, tough...
it also doesn't excuse sink waste pipes falling off as they are just push fit....that haven't been pushed and don't fit.....cure....owners add jubilee clips....
it also doesn't ......well, you can read the foum and see the other 'numerouse'(sic) posts as well as I can (possibly
)as I said, certainly not exclusive to AS...plenty to read on other brand forums...
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With ISO in manufacturing, the process should be traceable, ie when a plane flies and there is an accident, any faulty parts or builds can be found and the build trail is documented. Equally this should be the same with vans if the manufacturer has ISO manufacturing accreditations. All parts, should be traceable right back to their original manufacturer and supplier. If everyone involved is registered the standards should be regulated and traceable throughout the manufacturing process.
Whether this is working in the caravan and motorhome industry I can't say but it ought to be!
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Sadly, traceability doesn’t make for first class caravan building, Brue.
I think Easy got it right on the previous page.
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