Car towing capability
Hello everyone, we are new and looking for some advice which I apologise if being asked before.
We recently purchased our 1st Caravan and when we spoke to the dealer about Car Vs Caravan suitability, he advised my car would be more than adequate for towing the caravan we were looking at.
So, I have a Jaguar XE R-Sport with a kerb weight of 1450kg. The towing weight capability is 1800kg and the Caravan MTPLM is 1595kg.
When we collected the caravan, the car handled as expected and pulled really well. Also felt stable on the road and motorway.
I guess my question is here, is the ratio car vs caravan actually ok?
Best Regards
Mike & Anj
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I'm sure others will be able to baffle you with various numbers, but I believe you've been mislead. Lutz will tell you there's no such thing as 'kerb weight' but as your caravan is potentially somewhat heavier than the lightest your car will be, then you'll be towing way over 100%
Your Jaaag is ally so is relatively light
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caravan should not weigh more than the kerb weight of the vehicle pulling it. don't think it's illegal but you are well over the recommended 85% ratio and risking your, your family and everyone else's life on the road. bet your insurance wouldn't pay up in an accident. don't risk it.
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Legally, it seems OK.
However, the recommendation for safety is that the MTPLM of the van should be in the region of 85% of the kerb weight of the car. It's not law and many people successfully tow at 90-ish%. Your ratio is 110%.
It’s your call but consider the effect of the heavy van when you brake going downhill. It’s the cause of many a roll over. It’s not so much the pulling performance but the stopping ability that needs to be considered.
It never pays to take the word of a car or van salesman regarding a towing match. Their interest is in selling.
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Are you sure that the kerb weight is only 1450?
Looking at this list it might be much higher:
https://www.carleasingmadesimple.com/data/jaguar/xe/kerb-weight/
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Looking at the list it depends on the actual model, and could be as much as 1650, which would give 100% ratio.
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My 1992 80 bhp 1450kg Defender 90 will legally tow my 3500kg Ifor trailer.
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There most definitely is such a thing as kerbweight. It's even defined in UK legislation. The problem begins when you try to find out what the kerbweight of your car actually is. It is specific to each and every vehicle and can vary by as much as about 150kg even for the same model, so any brochure, handbook, database, etc. can only be a rough guide. Moreover, manufacturers aren't obliged to provide the figure anyway. The mass in service figure in your V5c isn't much help either, because, a) mass in service is defined differently to kerbweight and b) it is unlikely to represent the actual figure for your car because, by definition it applies to a car with the bare minimum of factory fitted options. On top of that, published weights are often referred to as being 'kerbweight' whereas on closer scrutiny, they aren't according to the legal definition at all. Often, the mass in service figure is referred to as 'kerbweight' - which is OK for a rough guide, and it would most certainly result in a very conservative figure if you want to calculate the weight ratio, but not if you want something accurate.
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When you collected your van it was presumably empty so probably towing about 1400-1450kg. I am extremely surprised the dealer did not advise that you might be towing over 100% and give you a print out with the specific towing info for your outfit. Whilst I do not get hung up on the 85% recommendation You may find your insurance does have a limit of 100%. Sur les incontinents they simply tow within the law and would not be remotely concerned with this set up.
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Lutz, I have wondered the same myself however a number of forum members have referred to such conditions in their insurance when similar discussions have previously taken place. I personally choose not to go above 100% and currently tow at 94% (previous out fit was 97%) but given what I see abroad (and sometimes in the UK) and As we have agreed before, the weight ratio is but one of many factors to consider with towing safely.
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Wise words from easy T caravanner, we recently, two weeks ago did ours at a public weigh bridge and it only cost £10. Also good idea to do car and caravan together, also £10. Not really a good idea to get too close to 100% either particularly whilst you are inexperienced with towing.
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Its amazing how many people and dealers get mixed up with this, my understanding is you can tow a caravan up to 100% of your cars kerb wait (but NOT recomened) according to your figures your car can PULL 1800kgs but not TOW 1800kgs that is due to the cars kerb weight . its a pity the clubs on line matching service is not any good when I put in the data for a car we were looking at buying 16 months ago it had a kerb weight of 0 kgs !!! we did buy it the end not because the dealer told it was ok because we sat down and crunched the numbers ourselves.
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There's nothing to stop anyone from towing with a weight ratio of over 100% so long as none of the plated weight limits are exceeded (other than some UK insurance companies that for reasons best known to themselves apparently stipulate a 100% limit). However, whether it's wise to is another story.
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I don't know what the basis is for your statement, but on the Continent there is no such recommendation. Many tow their caravan at the car's towing limit even if this is over 100% and yet I have not noticed more caravans littering the road on the other side of the Channel than in the UK.
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The Jaguar website gives the weight as from 1591kg. Near enough 100% ratio. Just enjoy your caravanning but don't exceed the 60mph speed limit. That could be difficult in a Jag!!
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As Tony says, Jag website states from 1591kg. As there are several power variants with either maual or auto boxes at presumably differing weights, until the original poster clarifies which model they have its a little pointless speculating further unfortunately.
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Practically every car that comes off the end of the production line weighs different. Websites, brochures, handbooks or any other publication can therefore never be anything more than a rough guide. On the other hand, 50kg either way in the kerbweight figure is not going to make or break an outfit, so there is little point in expecting absolute accuracy in the data.
Besides, few manufacturers, if any, specify kerbweight as it is defined by law anyway. More often than not when they talk about kerbweight, they actually mean mass in service, but the two are not the same.
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Regardless of legal or quasi legal definitions, opinion or pure stubbornness there can surely be no justification for towing a trailer with a greater weight than the towing vehicle. Which is more likely to take over if a towing incident occurs (tail wagging dog?).
Don't expect 'in my humble opinion' to carry any weight when your insurance company is looking for a get-out.
So if determined to do it your way make sure there are no clauses in your policy to give them cause. Similarly 'how can they prove it' is dodgy ground. If it's serious enough accident investigators are a lot cuter than most of us in determining cause.
Finally, whilst insurance policies have been mentioned has anyone looked at the Green Flag small print? I quote :-
Caravan and Trailer Cover What’s covered: Your caravan or trailer will have the same cover as the Insured Vehicle when being towed by the Insured Vehicle provided: • The weight of the caravan or trailer when loaded is not more than the kerb weight of the Insured Vehicle.
Food for thought?
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Although towing a light caravan relative to the weight of the towcar is undoubtedly less demanding on the driver, the recommendations are purely arbitrary. No-one has ever demonstrated that towing a caravan weighing more than the kerbweight of the car is without qualification recipe for certain disaster.
Besides, in case of dispute with one's insurance company if sailing close to the limit, it would be necessary to have documentary proof of the actual kerbweight of the car. However, as stated before, manufacturer's aren't obliged to provide that figure and for the most part they don't.
In the example quoted above, the insurance company refers to the "weight of the caravan ot trailer when loaded". Presumably that means the actual laden weight, not the MTPLM. To be able to show that the condition that must be satisfied is fulfilled it would be necessary to put the caravan on a weighbridge and provide a printout every time before it is taken out on to the road, which is clearly absurd.
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Are you for real? Everything you say flies in the face of logic and recommendations from the club you belong to.
Your comments should come with a health warning.
Incidentally, contrary to your earlier post, kerbweight is not defined in U.K. legislation. There are two definitions which give slightly different values, but use the highest and you're on safe ground.
1) the weight of the vehicle as manufactured, inclusive of liquids, coolant, lubricating oil etc.
2) the weight of the vehicle as manufactured, inclusive of liquids, coolant, lubricating oil etc. plus a tank of fuel.
In both cases passengers, personal effects and other items are excluded.
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Oh dear, R&R. He’s real alright and realistic.
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