Bikes on A frame and noseweight
I would be grateful for some advice, please. We are considering getting a Baily Unicorn Cadiz. The nose-weight is 100 kg, and with 2 bikes on the A frame, plus the holder, it would amount to about 60kg. I don't want to overload anything, so would it be possible to pack the van in such a way that we can still be under 100kg, ie only "using" the 40kg allowance left. The gas bottles are not in the front. Years ago, I recall having a weight gauge and it read 50kg, which was the then legal limit in Germany, where we were based, and that didn't seem to be a problem. I fully understand about how to load - just whether I can get that gauge to read 100kg with the bikes. Hope this makes sense! Thanks in anticipation.
Comments
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The two bikes might weigh 60kg but will not impose 60kg at the towball. Depending on the actual location on the A frame may be 40 or 45kg. I suppose that using quick release on front wheels and seat saddles might allow removal to reduce weight further. Until the van is loaded it is difficult to be sure what you are dealing with but realistically you may struggle with two bikes I suspect.
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I caution you to consider where the rear corners of the tow vehicle go on full lock.
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An extremely good point Navi and one that I had completely overlooked. On occasion I have reversed into side roads in order to change direction. That would have been impossible. And some tight turns going forwards could well be a problem. Well said.
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I would think it very difficult. Our U2 Cadiz tows best with about 90kgs on the hitch. To achieve this the only things in front of the axle are relatively light weight, such as the water barrels and waste master, plus kettle toaster and such like under the front seats. A plastic box with any heavy items from the over head lockers is also on the floor.
Therefore to offset a 60kg load close to the hitch would require something fairly weighty close to the rear. Plus probably not being able to carry anything, as we do, in front.
Also, as mounted on the A frame they are part of the weight of the van, I would have thought you in danger of exceeding the maximum payload, unless you carry very little in the van.
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I'd suggest the OP looks at the fact that ( IMO ) most caravans he has seen such set ups would have been on none Uk caravans. A much longer A frame and possibly able to take the weight of two bikes in that position.
If I could advise my experience's of this,
Roof mounted : Dirty bike on top of clean car. ?
Boot mounted : The weight of which dented my Boot. ?
Towbar mounted : Ideal if tolerances allow. !
A frame mounted : again ideal if tolerances allow. !
I have a in the past utilised all of the above and do still have a MAXXRAXX 4 bike rack that fixes behind a bolt on towball and can be used solo or when towing ( Tolerances allowing ).
Happy caravanning.
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Probably ask Witter for example. https://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/accessory/ZX89
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Based on my experience with a Bailey I would say that it would be impossible to carry that load on the A Frame. It would need a very big counterbalance at the rear of the van which could lead to problems with payload and stability.
We tried several options and ended up with two Thule carriers on the roof of our car (along with a wind surfer!). Funnily enough, we just got them out of the loft to sell on as we no longer have bikes.
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I chose roof mounted Thule for reasons already noted. 2 bikes and roof box no issue.
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We use a Thule roof rack to, having carried bikes inside the van, on a towbar mount before bar type approval. Points to consider with the roof bars though - when used with an SUV they can make getting the bike up/ down, quite a stretch. The crossbar clamping method isn’t recommended for carbon frames, for which wheel clamping is preferred.
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We have 4 bikes and I looked at the options several years ago. Basically if put on the towbar then it needs to be included in the noseweight. As my car has a 90kg limit, I basically had 20kg left for e caravan.
Bolting to the A frame ...not practical as already pointed out and ridiculous amount of weight being out at the rear of the van to balance. Ended up with Thule roof wingbars and slide on carriers. However, it only works as I’m over 6 ft tall and am strong enough to lift them so isn’t ideal for everyone.
My new van does have the option to rear mount with the appropriate Thule mount but after having noseweight issues, as well as a measly weight allowance that isn’t practical to use
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There's a Dutch van on the next pitch with two bikes on the A frame, no end of awning furniture which presumably goes in the van somewhere pulled by a C4 Picasso. I don't believe its nose weight limit is going to be street legal.
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Have you considered a rear mounted bike carrier? Obviously this reduces the nose weight, but as the rear overhang of all caravans is much less than the front overhang, the nose weight is not reduced by anywhere near the rear loading. When the weight of a motor mover mounted in front of the axle is included in the calculation, the impact of rear mounted bikes is not so much as you might think. Calculating the change to the loadings is a simple matter, and much better than guesswork.
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I carry 2 bikes on top of the Sorento, total height 3m, never had an issue with ferry, tried most routes. It can cost a little more on some sailings. Currently in France used Brittany Ferries, no extra charge to increase from 2.6m (caravan) to 3.0m (car+bikes). Took them to Ireland last month, no extra charge.
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Agree with points above especially with regards to loading (best on car and roof is obvious place although I accept that it can be difficult to get them up and down)
Roof bars and cycle carriers (S-Max)
Use caravan step, MBH (Much Better Half) holds my belt to support me when putting up or down.
Use straps with quick release clamps.
Bought from https://www.roofbox.co.uk/ selected Cruz which were a reasonable price and have been used for thousands of miles across Europe with no problems (the straps were the poorest part so bought extra ones for a fiver in Italy)
Only other point is that we take bikes off and put inside van on the bed (pedals off and handlebars turned 90 degrees) protected by cardboard and plastic sheet for ferry crossing and back onto car at the dockside.
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" Only other point is that we take bikes off and put inside van on the bed (pedals off and handlebars turned 90 degrees) protected by cardboard and plastic sheet for ferry crossing and back onto car at the dockside. "
May I ask why you do this doug ?
Happy caravanning.
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Don't underestimate continental vans though - we have an Antares 476 which has 300kg payload and we load 2 bikes on the (very long) a frame and still stay within the limits of our C4 Picasso...
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