Dedicated towing harness - Reverse issue
Hi All, I have just fitted my 13 pin genuine KIA Sportage 2010-2015 dedicated wiring harness (3U621ADE00CP) and supplemental kit for the caravan fridge (55621ADE00). Purchased from Jennings Motor Group, for my 2014 KX-4.
I tested it today and all the functions worked including the caravan feeds all except for the reversing lights.
I bought the KIA genuine kit as I did not want to have to cut into the wiring harness.
The instructions show that I need to cut into the wiring harness for the reverse to work (I did ignore this instruction hoping it would work without this connection).
I am assuming after the wiring harness / connectors were made and in production some bright spark said 'oh F@%k' we forgot the reverse connection. so they just added a wire to cut into the wiring harness (going against the point of a dedicated wiring kit!).
Hopefully somebody can restore my confidence in this genuine part costing £160.
If anybody can give me some advise I would be really pleased?
Cheers
Derek
Comments
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If the instructions say you need to break into the wiring harness then I would suggest you follow this. Sometimes it is just not practical to have a suitable interconnect for all models and derivatives, poor show but if that what they designed then I cant see you having an option.
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Looks like you have to do what is recommended, very unfortunate.
Mine has a dedicated CanBus harness and when towing, if reverse is selected the cars reversing lights are inhibited and the caravans turn on. I suppose it stops glare from the front reflection of the caravan but doesn't help that much with the caravans reverse lights so far away, plus reversing in the dark is a very rare occurrence for me and I wouldn't bother.
Although the instructions say to splice in, I would ask the dealer that splicing into the cars harness would not be an excuse to void your warranty (if you have one) if any electrical problems happened one day. So easy to blame that and use it as an excuse.
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These Scotchlock connectors are rather brutal and a fault waiting to happen. I would not use then on a vehicle that I was keeping for more than 24 months, especially if the location they are to be used is damp. The cores of the wires involved are open to atmosphere and the copper will follow the laws of chemistry to become copper oxide.
A decent elecrician would strip a short length of the wire and solder on the new connection, making it all waterproof with self-amalgamating tape.
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I'm a decent electrician and I use scotch locks all the time on auto wiring. I haven't been asked to solder a wire onto a connection for over 30 years, and that was for GPO JB multicore wiring, in fact I don't believe open reach solder joints either now.
Provided you make the connection correctly, use the correct size you will have no issues in my experience.
My NTTA local fitter also uses them.
90% of connections are now crimp connections, but using those in a car involves cutting the wire to make a connection, not something I would be happy doing, scotch lock are preferred.
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Scothlocks are a bodge.
There are no ID (insulation displacement) terminals used in any road vehicle by the OE manufacturers. There is a reason for this, they fail, they corrode, they let moisture into the harness, they are a poor joint with increased resistance in the circuit.
Telephone companies use ID terminals because once they have fitted them they are not subject to vibration. The telephone ones are at least gel filled to stop moisture penetration.
No auto electrician should ever use them, there are many papers written on the many automotive attempts to use ID terminals over the years, most are of the autopsy type on what went wrong.
Cutting the cable, twisting, soldering and insulating is the correct thing to do. If you are not confident enough to DIY then find someone who is.
I would never allow someone to scotchlock a towing harness into my vehicle, I would question their competence.
They are quick and cheap, if that's what you want then fine.
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Its not true that road side JB don't suffer from vibration, they do. How many people have had a problem with their phone master socket? they don't use soldered joints either.
They would be no practical reason for an auto maker to use scotch locks, it would be totally impractical, the plug and socket arrangement using crimped connections is the only sensible way for a quick install.
Cutting a cable and soldering is a dated method which in its self can lead to problems, I would avoid this type of bodge job.
The only time I use a soldering iron is when making up electronic boards as an hobby, and even the incoming wiring to that is via crimp lug connectors.
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As I said, they are quick and cheap, if that's what you want then fine.
My phone master socket is not subject to the harmonic vibration of the sprung mass of a motor vehicle. My house would have fallen down if it was. Telecom applications use single solid conductor which gives a better outcome, still poor though.
I did not say manufacturers used scotch locks I was pointing out that they did not use Insulation Displacement connections, these are the principals that scotch locks use to make a connection. Many have tried, all have failed.
Cutting and soldering gives a 0 Ohm joint that can be made waterproof and corrosion resistant. Mechanical failure is 0% if done properly.
Scotchlocks give an unknown resistance to the connection, are open to moisture, promote corrosion, regularly fail mechanically and cause fretting of the conductor.
This not my opinion it is documented fact and there are many technical papers on the subject.
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Disadvantages of solder method:
1/ It takes more time to terminate than other methods.
2 "Cold" solder joints can cause problems if the connector is not soldered properly to the cable, observing solder flow through the contact solder hole.
3/ Soldered joints between contact and center conductor can work harden if subjected to excessive vibration during use and develop micro-cracks followed by solder fatigue.
4/ Soldering can be inconsistent and subject to failure as a result of mechanical or temperature stresses.
5/ Care must be taken to control heat applied during the soldering process and not allow solder to wick or distort the cable dielectricTime was when we would solder supply cables, that was around 45 years ago, now all are crimped.
That's all I'm saying on the subject, so we will have to agree to disagree.
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I have to agree with xtrailman, if you don't want to use scotchloks then crimp, solder is not the most reliable method. If you want to do the job properly then heat-shrink over the crimp.
Personally I'm happy with scotchloks inside the car, never had a problem yet. Most official manufacturer car towing kits use scotchloks in my experience.
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solder is not the most reliable method
Soldered joints are 100% reliable
Most official manufacturer car towing kits use scotchloks in my experience.
Not if you have a modern(ish) car, then it will be a dedicated plugin harness to be compatible with the CanBus system, and any advantages offered when the cars ECU knows it is in towing mode. Scotchlocks along with bypass relays won't give that.
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Soldered joints are 100% reliable
Depends who is doing them. I have in the past come across 'dry' joints even in manufactured products
Scotchlocks give an unknown resistance to the connection, are open to moisture, promote corrosion, regularly fail mechanically and cause fretting of the conductor.
As with soldered joints the quality of connection is dependent on the operator and chosen sizes etc. IMO
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Soldered joints are 100% reliable
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Depends who is doing them. I have in the past come across 'dry' joints even in manufactured products
Perhaps I should have added .......... me.
As in all things in this world, if it isn't done right it will fail, didn't think it needed additional explanation
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My Vauxhalls had a factory connector for the towing connections & my last dedicated loom for my Omega used plug & socket that plugged onto the tail light and plugged the original plug/socket onto the new loom. I can't see any car manufacturer condoning the use of Scotchlocks when they spend so much in designing their cars.
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When I was at work, a big part of the fleet (Some 800 vehicles) were Volvo chassis, the only repairs we were allowed to make and claim for had to be done using OEM connectors. This came in the form of a Kit containing specific crimping tools for each type, Specific Pin release tools to get the connector out of the insulated sleeves and a selection of connectors(male & female) All contained in a camera equipment type case. The kit cost in excess £3k . Nothing else could be used,
Any reputable garage or competent auto electrician will tell you scotch lock type connectors are a problem waiting to happen and will not use them.
I would advise anyone to steer well clear of any towbar fitting service that uses them in the instalation.
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Most official manufacturer car towing kits use scotchloks in my experience.
No absolutely not. I line with Milo's experience, all OEMs have a dedicated repair kit and dealers are contractually bound to use them. These do not and have never involved any type of insulation displacement terminal.
I totally agree that crimp and solder are the correct way to cut in cables but this assumes that you have the correct splice terminals and calibrated crimping tool. You probably don't and they are eye wateringly expensive. For the average DIYer the chance of overcrimping and fracturing the main cct when jointing the new wire if you have the wrong splice crimp is considered more prone to failure than a straight solder joint.
I totally agree twist and solder is not the ideal way to do it, but for the average 'solder once a year' type DIY, it is by far the best way.
With respect to the quality of a soldered joint, as I said in my initial post if you dont know what you are doing then find someone who does.
xtrail man, your technical reasons for not using solder are ripped from a website and are specifically referring to the application of open ended lugs onto power cables. They have nothing to do with the jointing of towing circuits. I know you really dont want to believe what I am saying but just google scotchlock failures and have a read.
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I have had my C4 Picasso since new and when it was ordered I asked for a dedicated wiring harness to be fitted, I was persuaded to not go down that way! I took delivery and I quite often had problems with the fridge not working all of the time when towing and my reversing lights did not work on the 'van. But, I put off and put off and didn't do anything about it! Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
The car is now six and a half years old so decided that I would upgrade the plugs to a 13 pin. This was done yesterday and I was shocked to find that the wiring that had been used for the fridge was very thin (about 5 amp) and the relays were next to useless! The reversing lights had not even been connected up! I now have the correct kit with the correct wiring, so now when the reversing lights go on the rear car sensors are turned off. I will be going in to see the Service Manager at the Citroen Dealership along with the cable that was taken out, I know it is too late to get anything done about my wiring kit, but at least it might stop someone else from having dodgy wiring fitted.
And to think I have towed all over the UK, France, Holland and Germany with it like that. Scary!!!
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