Clutches
I'm changing my car in the new year and although I would prefer an auto I'm not adverse to getting a manual gearbox.
Can you good folk give me some idea of their tow car performance with a manual box, preferably comments on clutch wear and what sort of mileage did you achieve before a new clutch was fitted??
This is important to me as it will determine the car I end up purchasing.
Thanks guys
Comments
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That's a 'how long is a piece of string?' type of question. A manual car that lives its life on a motorway will last forever & a day on a clutch. One that lives its life in town with someone that rides the clutch won't last long. And will this manual have a dmf? That's a whole new ball game.
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Agree with MM. Some drivers simply lack mechanical sympathy and will wear out a clutch in 10,000 miles irrespective of towing or not. In 40 years of averaging 20k miles a year I have never had to replace a clutch, and that includes some cars with over 150k miles on the clock. DMF can be a problem and are not restricted to diesels or cars with manual gearbox.....
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I was out last night with a few mates for a Christmas Beer & Curry, One of them picked me up in his Diesel Estate Audi with CVT gearbox, it's on its second one now, first one changed at 65K under warranty
. The cars not used for towing anything, he says Diesels and CVT's don't work well together from what he has been told by the dealer.
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Throw any real amount of towing into the equation and for boxes designed for use in domestic cars, that will quickly find the fragility of clutch systems. These are optimised for domestic car use, not lumbered with near twice the mass to get moving.
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Or in more critical application the very reliable Kopp Variators we extensively used.
However, towing with a "car" [sub 3500kg GVM] then for me its a torque converter in a vehicle getting close to that GVM, every time over a manual clutch or any mechanically clutched auto.
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you always mention "the rubber belt" when talking about CVT and you are wrong as they are a linked metal belt and on my car gives the smoothes drive i have ever had. milothedog if you believe anything the dealer tells you the you would believe the sun is cold. they are salesmen and if asked a technical question wouldn't know the answer. like Lutz i pull a 1800kg van with my 9 speed CVT jeep cherokee and never a cough/twich/judder or anyting just a smooth ride towing and solo. i worked on freelanders for a few years and would never own one but each to there own as they say. everyone will defend the car they own, as for clutches, manufacturers will only warranty the manual clutch for 6 months from new.
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CVT is rubbish, I test drove a Subaru Forester and it was a heap of manure, and as soon as you pressed the throttle it whined at high revs until the speed caught up with the engine. Obviously it was fairly seamless in the ratios but I couldn't hack the constant high revs unless you were dawdling.
Torque converter is the only proper auto and a manual with clutch is not for towing unless treated with kid gloves.
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Just sharing a part of a conversation
. Like myself, said person is ex motor trade and not easily taken in. Like you say, each to their own
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Whether its a rubber or metal belt is immaterial ..... the drive is the same ..... one cone effectively gets bigger as t'other gets smaller.
Your CVT has been discussed before .... if its a cvt, then either the 9 speeds are artificial, or it's not a cvt.
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Agreed. I had an automatic Vauxhall Zafira for years with a beautiful torque converter transmission. Not for towing, but 3 months ago I bought a one year old Citroen Cactus with an automated manual gearbox. It was so awful that I changed it after 9 weeks. The automated manual had just two buttons on the centre console; D(rive) and R(everse). It took about 3 seconds to change from one gear to another. Not much slower than a manual maybe BUT with a manual the driver decides which gear to start off with and when to change gear. With the automated manual I'd be pulling away into a gap, say on a busy roundabout, when at 12mph (just as I'm in the middle of the busy traffic) the speed would drop as it changed from 1st into 2nd gear, prompting all manner of gestures from the drivers closing up fast behind me.
I changed it for a 2017 Skoda Fabia Estate which has the same base and running gear as the Audi A3 and VW Golf. It has a sublime 7 speed DSG (dual clutch) transmission where (in brief) the next gear (up or down) is pre-selected and engaged simultaneously when the previous gear is disconnected. Drive is maintained throughout the sequence and the only way I know that it has changed gear is by looking at the gear indicator on the dashboard or the rev counter. It also has 'Sport' mode and 'Tiptronic' features.
I'm told that torque converter transmissions are uncommon nowadays as they do not help to deliver the fuel economy demanded by today's competitive market.
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That surprises me. How old was the one you drove, Metheven? I owned a 2016 (2017MY) diesel Forester CVT and it was the smoothest auto I’ve driven with no whining and no high revving. It was better for ordinary driving than a TC or dual clutch auto.
It wasn’t used for towing though and I’d agree the TC is the 'proper job'.
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It was this year TW, looking to change the car and already dismissed the Discovery Sport so went into the Subaru dealership. Whether it was a one off or not I don't know, but the demonstrator was terrible and put me off immediately. This was obviously solo and haven't a clue if the CVT was any good for towing.
If a dealership wants to sell then it must present the very best to get a sale, as I went away with the thought that every one was like that.
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Our last tow car, a seat Alhambra did 155000 miles (yes) and was 12 years old and had it's original clutch when it went off to the be scrapped (or so we thought as I noticed it's been re MOT and taxed)
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That is very odd. Mine was a dream and I only got rid of it because it wasn’t being used. 3000 miles in 15 months! I see the dealer where it ended up has just reduced it. No idea how it would be as a tow car though.
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The 7 speed Skoda (VAG) DSG is a dry clutch unit with poor reliability, we chose to stick with manual when we bought our new Seat last month for that reason. The wet clutch DSG boxes are fine if properly serviced. The Citroen automated manual is also dire but further up the range and with Peugeot PSA use torque converter autos even on their small cars. The Audi CVT box is also notoriously unreliable and was dropped by Audi a few years ago.
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Kinda going off subject here guys. Let me try and explain what I was after. . . .
Example, I'm looking at either a 180 ps (177bhp) Kuga. And depending what's available either manual or automatic, I just really want to know your experiences regarding using a manual gearbox. My current vehicle as your may have guessed is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 2.7crd (Mercedes engine and auto box). A proper air cooled torque convertor and tows our caravan really well.
I am only changing it for something more economical to run, but with the newer cars having less than inspiring reviews on their automatic gearboxes, I am wondering if I'll be better off with a manual. But what sort of mileage can expect a clutch plate to last?? Bearing in mind, I do less than 100000 miles a year and I consider myself to be a brilliant driver!! ( meaning I am mechanically minded, and know how to drive, both manual and autos properly)
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Bearing in mind, I do less than 100000 miles a year....
When do you sleep?
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Err ????
Typo. . . .10,000 obviously
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I suspect nobody has the required experience of these vehicles to enable them to give the responses you want, GC.
It's been pointed out that there are so many variables that it’s almost impossible to answer. We don’t know how you drive, where you go, how many hill starts you do and so on.
Therefore, the conversation has drifted to autos in general and it'll all be of interest to someone.
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The world of autos has come on in leaps and bounds since Rover's SD1 (not SDi
) Once you've got your head around just two pedals, there's no reason to ever buy another manual car (I know there are some die hard 3 pedal owners about). But as above, not all autos are the same, you need to do a bit of homework & test drive each of the different autos & see what you think. This might be of interest
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I only mentioned the Kuga as that's one of the cars on my shortlist.
And I do appreciate the variables. But I know from other threads there are some die hard three peddlers out there that can shed some light on the topic based on the tow cars they own or have owned.
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Ford's 'Powershift' auto transmission is not highly regarded although I have no personal experience, my Kuga having been a manual which performed perfectly.
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)last one was Rover sdi