Misleading Review
I have just got round to reading the Club's September magazine which contains a review of the Bailey Unicorn Cadiz. The review contains the sentence, `An MTPLM figure of just under 1,500 kg means a user payload of 155kg - adequate for a four-berther and ample if you are travelling as a couple'. With respect, this is misleading because such a caravan will require a motor-mover which will, in turn, require a leisure battery. Thus, in practice, the payload will actually be around 100kg which is certainly not adequate, even for a couple. I will not write on this at length because I have done so in other discussion threads but, having suffered a broken axle on a Bailey Unicorn and subsequently tested my Coachman replacement on a weighbridge with only basic equipment inside, I challenge the notion that an ex-works payload of 155kg is adequate even for a couple. The payloads of modern caravans are just not sufficient so why is The Club appearing to connive with manufacturers to mislead us?
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Try getting on an aeroplane with 100kg luggage even for two of you and see how far you get. That is 5 times what my porch awning weighs and my wife and I can barely lift that. by the way my unicorn even fully laden only comes out at 1390Kg it is a Valencia unicorn 2. And that also has the MTPL stated at 1500Kg.
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I can't remember a time when I boarded an aeroplane with a set of pans, cutlery and crockery for four, food for a day, toilet chemicals, hookup cable and water containers.
We're left with about 18kg payload each after we've put all the essentials in the van. We travel pretty light and we've stripped unecessary stuff out (microwave, carpets, big table etc)
0ur first van which was a 2000 Bailey ranger had a payload approaching 250kg and while we never used it all it did leave capacity to put the awning in the van if we needed to.
Payloads are far too low nowadays and too complicated as some equipment is allowed for but you have to research to see what's in and what isn't.
The swift basecamp makes me laugh. Aimed at sporty outdoors types and designed for bike carriage it has a payload of 110kg.
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One of the significant weights that people do is over load with food, we take just enough for one night and then buy what we require the next day, helps the local economy. We are off to Troutbeck Sunday for 5 days, all we have with us in cloths are two pair of Jeans, 5 Shirts, 5 underwear, 5 pair of socks and a pair of wellies and a pair of walking boots. Will be lucky if it adds up to 20 Kg, the main weight after the Battery and mover will be the pots and pans and cutlery all the plates are light weight melamine. Any heavy items travel in the car, we are lucky has we have Santa FE which has loads of room, sorry for got the Calor light bottle 2 off plus a new 3'1 Caravanstore , weighed the caravan last time out, was under 125 kg of items, which surprised me not much room for manoeuvre for any extra in the van. l have seen vans pull up and 4 sets of bikes removed admittedly a twin wheeler, still must have been well over loaded
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ot wont happen but i really think the 'testers' should have the actual test van weighed somthat customers get a proper idea of the effect that 'extras' have on caravans and MHs.
its all very well printing the brochure MIRO and MTPLM and coming out with some comment like '.....which leaves a healthy payload of xxx kg' when we all know that this doesnt include several items that have been fitted to the van....
headline 'payloads' attract customers but multiple extras 'packs' can add MUCH to the brochure weight.
our previous van had over 300kg of packs and other extras fitted. on the Heavy chassi with a tonne of payload this didnt matter too much, but on this latest van, which i wanted to run at 3500kg, there is less payload to start with so add ons need to be considered more carefully.
magazines could help by being more open and honest, starting with publishing the actual weight of the test van, be it caravan or MH.
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I think most people would be surprised at just how much they are carrying - even those who 'travel light'. People under estimate that every single item they put in the van reduces the payload. Apart from the heavy items such as an aquaroll, waste container, awning, hook up cable, camping chairs, there are things like toilet chemicals, toilet rolls, toiletries, towels, bedding, pillows, duvet or sleeping bags, knives, forks and spoons, pans and cooking implements, food containers, washing up bowl, washing up liquid, tea towels, drainer, food, door mats, hoses, coat hangers, pegs, washing line, brushes, cloths, levelling boards or ramps.......................! All of these are more or less essentials.
It would be interesting to make a list of just 'basic' essentials, and then take them all to a weighbridge to see just what the end figure was. I know there are those who have done this, or rather weighed everything as they put it into the van................. so it can be done, and would make interesting reading for those 'travelling light'.
You only have to read the statistics of people being stopped and taken to a weighbridge to realise just how many are overloaded, and these are not necessarily inexperienced caravanners, but those who just under-estimate how much 'essential' equipment actually weighs.
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IMO that is a totally unrealistic comparison, your plane luggage is just that it is not all the basic kit a caravan or motor home needs on top of its supplied build.
Put in your airline bag a 90 AH odd battery, a van mover, the crocks, cutlery, bedding, immediate foods etc along with your wife if talking about a motorhome, plus your clothes and it will weigh a lot more than just normal luggage.
The payloads offered in UK vans and some motor caravans is close to criminal IMO, certainly not fit for purpose in all but serving a minimalist family.
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I do think that rubber suspension is on its limit,manufactures should go back to torsion bar or good old fashioned springs.intergrating a couple of Mc phearson struts into the design should not be a problem but does lack of longevity come into the equation.😟
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I totally agree that there are unrealistic expectations on payload and not enough information. If it’s any consolation, for Motorhomes the payload situation is even worse. We travel really light with hardly any extras that most people would consider as standard yet still apparently we have a payload of 500kg (only 40kg under the limit).
On our Bailey Unicorn Valencia we had a high power mover, 110 Ahr battery (recommended), Fiamma wind out canopy, heavy loungers etc. Although we got the MTPLM upgraded I am just glad that I never got around to weighing it!
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Hitch, refreshing that you (a relatively new MHer) have weighed the van and understand your situation, but many (even long term MHow ers) adopt the atitude you highlighted with your caravan....scared to actually know....
the most vulnerable are those who think they can run a 7-8m MH with 2.5m rear overhangs on a 3.5t chassis (even with the payload 'upgraded' the axle weight limits dont change) and a lot are virtually overweight on the rear axle before they put anything in it.....some even sling a pair of bikes on a rack on the back making matters even worse....
i realise that manufacturers are trying it on producing vans like these, but dealers are equally to blame for not weighing the actual van being discussed (complete with its extras) and explaining the difficulties/options with the customer....weighing pads are readily available for this straightforward process.
...but by the same token we, the customers, must take some responsibility for the vans we drive....
anyone on CT with a 3.5t, 7m+ MH (perhaps with bikes) want to share their axle weights with us, so as to highlight the issue and what might be done about it?
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I had a MIRO and payload (actually weighed) of 1110 and 240Kg on my old Abbey. We used all but a few Kgs and that was putting the aqua roll and awning fabric in the car, along with coats, boots etc. That payload is just about realistic for a couple. To suggest that 150Kg or thereabouts is adequate for anyone, let alone a family of four borders on misrepresentation. I've had the MH up-plated from 3300 to 3500 just to be on the safe side. I haven't got around to a visit to a weighbridge yet. That's on my "to do" list.
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CY, just to let you know that, like any other upplating the MTPLM, tne axle weight limits wont change (without other modifications).
the 'std' 3500kg chassis has axle weights of
Max Front Axle Weight 1850
Max Rear Axle Weight kg 2000whereas the lighter 3300kg chassis has 100kg less on each axle at
Max Front Axle Weight 1750
Max Rear Axle Weight kg 1900Im pretty confident that your small front lounge van is unlikely to exceed these, the upplate might still prove useful though.
just ensure you are aware of the lower rear axle limits.
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We have a bailey Barcelona and usually there is just the 2 of us and our 2 cockers , we have all the usual extras such as a 4 wheel mover awning large battery . Then when we are getting ready to go away i always say to my wife that we must be overweight food cloths ( for all the British weather) shouldn't caravans be made to cope with the basic needs of a family without worrying about being overweight. We tow with a Kia Sorenta 2013 auto so we have lots of room in the car for heavy items I have never experienced any problems towing so will carry on until we get pulled in for a random check then I will have to face the music. I personally dont think that 2 people using a modern twin axle caravan should be able to overload it.
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the Barcelona has a 'payload' of 160kg.....although you, nor your dogs, will impact personally on this as you ride in the towcar, the amount of person/dog related 'stuff' that goes inside the van might do so...
the mover and battery alone take care of nearly 60kg so add in clothes, bedding, food, books, pots, pans, cutlery, electrical items, leads, levellers, tools, toilet fluids, hoses, wastemaster, aquaroll etc, etc....and the remaining 100kg disappears in a trice.....
just because you havent 'experienced any problems towing'.....doesnt mean you might not be very close to (or, more likely actually) overweight....
is 'carrying on until we get pulled in....' the way we should all approach this issue?
i realise that many vans have laughable pathetic payloads, but this just makes it more important that we are careful with how we load them.
having a large van like you do, often doesn't mean a larger payload (as one might expect), its often the opposite.....
i wish you luck in avoiding 'random checks', but id advise visiting a weighbridge and understanding the actual extent of the issue (if indeed you have one) rather than 'winging it' with a (more than likely) illegal van.
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There there is a school of thought that overloading doesn’t just occur when towing.
When the caravan is static and in use, in most cases it is still sitting on the axle/ axles. So, the family stepping in, the additional food, crockery, clothes, etc, may well push the loading over the stated limit.
The suspension could be fully compressed, the corner steadies and jockey wheel will share some of this weight, but I wouldn’t want to try and win the argument with the manufacturer when they say that the axle has failed from abuse by overloading.
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john, i absolutely agree with your point....its one thing to 'get away with' not getting nicked for overloading but another to add everything that lives in the towcar to the van....
at least with our MH, 'everything' that contributes to the overall weight has be to be taken in the same unit, so no 'sudden' overloading by adding stuff upon arrival....
i wonder how many issues arrive at service time by the adding of another 300kg or so (2 people, 2 dogs, and 'stuff') to the poor caravan axle and floor.....
im also surprised (not really) as to how few posters are prepared to say theyve weighed their vans (caravans and MHs) and to declare them, compared to more MH biased forums like MHfun and MHfacts where folk seem far more interested in the issue and to 'compare notes' with others in similar vans....
replating, for whatever reason, is a hot topic on these and other MH type forums.....but not with CC members, it seems....
perhaps they just want to ignore the issue and hope to 'get away' with any 'heaviness' they suffer from......
a good post.
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I am always shocked when I read reviews of vans and payloads available. As I am when I see how low vans are to the ground when they arrive on site and see the subsequent pile of kit come out.
I have owned pop-top Eriba vans since 2003. My current 3 bedder Triton 430 has has a miro of 1200kg and a theoretical payload of 360kg. By the time all of the factory option have been fitted, along with anything else I have bolted to it, and mover is taken into account this comes down to 230kg.
For the the two of us this is I consider sensible.
Colin
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I should have said an MTPLM of 1200kg, not miro.
Colin
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