Swift MH weights
for 2018, Swift have lumped all their Bolero and Bessacarr models together in one range....Bessacarr.
some have been stretched (again) to produce a 'cheaper' version of the Kon Tiki, with some layouts at 8.11m.....now, thats a lot of van...
incredibly, they are marketing this lump with a std 3500kg chassis, which, with the obvious option of the 150bhp engine and auto box, leaves a 'payload' (i use the term loosely) of under 200kg.
now, some caravanners might think thats a decent amount BUT this does not include ANY other juicy options (satellite, twin batteries, bike rack, tow bar etc) NOR ANY water, nor passenger, not camping gear nor ANYTHING....
not only that, looking at the huge rear overhang and the rear water tank, its likely the rear axle limit will be close to being exceeded before the first passenger sets foot in the van.
certainly adding anything at the rear (water, 'stuff'', bikes/rack etc) will render this van useless before its turned a wheel....
its not good Swift offering a chassis upgrade (which they dont, youd have to do it yourself.....) if the 3.5t carrot has cost someone £60k+ for a van they dont have the license to drive....
this seems to me to be wholly irresponsible marketing which will end in heartbreak for the unwary.
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i posted this to raise awareness for those whose eye gets caught by just that hype, not for you to wade in and have (yet) another go at motorhomers (who are obviously all 'nieve' (sic))
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It was a unfortunately, to a lesser extent a general problem when we were looking around at last years show. Due to age we want to stick within the 3.5 limit. Trouble is most of the higher spec vans had so much kit, that without the upgrade did not offer a particularly generous payload. We particularly wanted the Alde heating, but it was very difficult to come by on the more basic MH's. So as well as the extra weight of the Alde you had to have all the rest.
It really did feel like they were selling a product not fit for purpose. Unless of course you went for the upgrade. None of the sales people we talked to highlighted this. So it would be very easy for someone to get drawn in by all shiney add ons. Especially someone coming from caravanning, where at least you may have the option of carrying some heavy stuff in the car and don't generally travel with onboard water.
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this seems to me to be wholly irresponsible marketing which will end in heartbreak for the unwary.
I agree with you BB.
I think the last few cars we have bought in our household the selling dealer has gone through some "wants & needs" type discussion at the point of sale, with everything ticked off on a check sheet and both parties have to sign it.
Given that many M/H purchasers are of a "certain age" and there is the burning issue of age and weight (of van!) it would seem reasonable that dealers ensure this is addressed during the sales process.
Given that even large companies are completely incapable of behaving in an ethical manner ( household names behind the miss-selling of PPI, interest only mortgages or even airlines failing to adequately compensate for delays until forced to) perhaps the Club should press the relevant trade bodies (NCC ?) to introduce something......
It would not surprise me if one day there is a miss-selling scandal around this or the crime of "Use, cause, permit an overloaded vehicle". Perhaps a few prosecutions of dealers would help focus minds.....??...
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Steve, as a 'rough' yardstick, any MH over 7m is going to be blooming hard to run at 3.5t, especially as most 'sources' suggest around a minimum of 500kg of 'genuine payload (after extras) for a couple, which must accommodate the passenger, all kit, water, bikes, awning etc etc...
in fact, just about everything a caravanner stuffs in their large towcar, plus the water, OH shoes
etc...our previous van at 7.35m 'could have' but not at a practical lavel...it happened to come on a 4.25t chassis anyway....
this van, at 6.4, and a 'lightweight' slimline version runs with around 80-100kg spare 'all up'.....fluids, gas, water, shoes
etc.ok, we have a few 'extras' that some vans might not have but you can see where this is going...
anything larger, approaching 7m, and certainly wider (like the latest Baileys) will be staritng from a much heavier position.
im sure there are existing owners who are in a similar (blissfull ignorance) position...
many times, ive mentioned 'weight'in threads and can hardly remember anyone coming back and saying that this issue has caused them to visit a weighbridge.
yes, three or four (knowledgable members anyway, IMV) have mentioned their weights and that was in a 'tyre pressure' thread.
im convinced of one CTmember being overweight (van, lol) who has a long van, long overhang, bikes and a rear rack....yet despite several broaches of the subject has chosen to remain quiet on the subject.
obviously, thats their prerogative, but ignoring the issue doesnt make it go away....and ignorance is no defense if plod (or worse, le Gendarmerie) wants a chat
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TT, up until last year (i think) there was a directive (eu?) that said what elements had to be included in the MIRO so that the buyer knew that what was left, really was payload....notwithstanding passengers and extras.
from memory it was something like...
90% fuel
90% fresh water
driver (nominal 75kg)
one full large gas cylinder
battery
tool kit
spare wheel
these days MIRO can be whatever the manufacturer decides to include, or not. the obvious one to leave out is water.....suddenly ALL vans seem to have 100kg or more of extra payload.....wow!
now i know, not all folk carry a full tank, depending on where youve been and where ypu are going (amongst other things) but at some time most of us have a whole heap of water on board and if youre marginal on weight its easy to get caught out...
most folk forget that there is only a 75kg allowance for the driver and none for the OH or other passenger....so anyone a tad over the nominal amount and an 'average' sized OH will be adding another 100kgto the pot...
ive read recently of a chap with a 3.5t van taking it to the weighbridge after purchase and finding he was 300+kg over weight....
my advice for ANYONE buying a MH new or used, weigh it before purchase.....either empty with the certain knowledge of everything you will ever carry (incl allowances for fluids) or better stil weigh it fuly loaded.....
good luck, stay aware...theres a lot of mind numbing bling out there
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You're on the nail, BB. The vans are being targeted at those with licence limitations and I suspect many will be overloaded and significantly overweight in use.
We deliberately searched out a 3500kg model 3-4 years ago before the current round of 'not fit for purpose' vans grew to present proportions. It quickly became clear even then that only the small to modest size MHs would give us an adequate payload and it was fortunate that the size suited us.
The thought of a family using a large 3500kg MH and filling it with all their gear, probably in blissful ignorance, is the stuff of nightmares.
We weighed ours and with the addition of towbar, spare wheel and all our stuff it's only just inside the limit even with a payload of 400+kg.
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May be the conversion that was being "lived in" on test at Ferry Meadows that was part of a range being introduced as in the words of the tester "basic (cheaper) to premier (all the bling and pricey)"where there were not any water tanks on the basic,is an attempt to get more to take up the lifestyle and keep within the weight limits
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I have a 2016 Swift Bolero 684 lounge 7.1m long MH plated at 3500kg. I have 3 factory fitted extras consisting of tow bar, second leisure battery and bike rack. All of these extras are behind the rear axle as is the 100ltr fresh water tank and the under bed storage area. The large Dometic fridge freezer sits over the rear axle as does the slot in cooker. Gas bottles ( 1x11kg and 1x6kg) are behind the front axle as is the waste water tank. The Alde boiler is also over the rear axle and the spare wheel is right at the back of the van.
With the van loaded for an extended camping trip (6 weeks with me, the wife and cat), full tank of diesel and water, empty waste tank, 2 bikes on the back and nothing on the tow ball I am over weight on the rear axle and 60kg over 3500kg. The van can be replated to 3700kg but that wouldn't solve the rear axle overload so would be pointless. The standard Bolero 684 has a half dinette layout so that it can carry 2 rear passengers and is plated at 3700kg so I would think that the rear axle overload on that would be significant if loaded the same.
All I carry under the bed is 2xhigh back chairs with seperate foot rests, 1x canvass chair for the cat, 1x wind break, 4x levelling blocks and a few other bits and bobs that individually don't weigh a lot.
The barbie has now been assigned to the shed along with the 907 gas cylinder, we didn't use it that often so no big deal. A couple of other weighty items that where under the bed have been relocated to the front storage areas since the visit to the weighbridge and I am fairley confident that travelling with an empty water tank will keep me legal. To be sure I need to revisit the weighbridge but that isn't easy in my area but will make the effort at some point.
Towing a car on an A-frame doesn't add much weight but a trailer is an absolute no no. The car does allow me to carry some stuff in the boot though, just like a caravanner, which is what I am when towing.1 -
To keep within the plated weight of our friends motor caravan they carry quite a lot in the "tender"with the rear seats folded down so even when on site they have only a two seater car so if going out with any of us ex motor caravan owners (two couples)we tuggers tend to be the transport of choice especially as one of us has a seven seat Sorento.
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If you have, or can acquire, a C1 licence entitlement, getting a motorhome and its axles uprated can be either a paper exercise or require changes to your van's configuration such as fatter tyres and bigger wheels. Firms like SV Tech give advice on what can be done and what needs to be done [if anything] whilst there are driving schools that can help you get a C1 licence. I had my van uprated to 3850kg so I can carry extra passengers and water; it cost me £312 including VAT. I left both axles at 2000kgs.
Some uprates may require semi air suspension fitted.
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A, my van came on an AL-Ko chassis, which seemed to give me automatically an updated 3650kg plate...
it also came fitted with the 16" larger/wider tyres which gave me an updated 3850kg plate.
however, for a number of reasons, i wanted the van to run at the original weight of 3500kg....thats whats on the V5...
if, for whatever reason, i require extra payload (we have two extra belted travel seats) i could easily swap it back (to either) with no physical changes required.
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PeeGee, you have first hand experience of a manufacturers 'brochure world' mentality against the real world....
a few years ago, a version of your van (and ours) came out with an across the rear washroom (a la caravans) at 7.70m....this van is still on the 'list' and can still be had (virtually unusable) at 3500kg.
now, Swift have really gone for it, adding yet another half metre to bring in a few vans at 8.11m (a whole metre longer than yours) and still have a version in the brochure at 3500kg....
no doubt, pretty soon, there wil be a van (from Swift?) with a negative payload, freely available with a 3500kg chassis
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I know this is a Motorhome thread but the same "miss-selling" goes on with Caravans. Many new vans have a payload of circa 150kg out of that you need to allow for the leisure battery and almost certainly a mover as most new vans are far to heavy to move by hand, this leaves you with a usable payload of circa 100kg. If you are a family of four and travel with the rear car seats in use and cannot therefore stuff everything in the car I would say it is virtually impossible not to overload the van.
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I was in a dealers (who will remain anonymous) a few weeks ago and a couple were looking at a motorhome. I am not sure what make or model it was but they were very conscious of the big 70th birthday on the horizon and wanted to stay under the magic 3.5 tonnes.
We were all sat in the waiting room and conversation opened up around the van they were looking at and how they would spend most of the time in Europe. It then moved onto our experience of traveling in Europe and if we have ever been stopped to be weighed.
The conversation stemmed from a concern the customers had raised with the salesman around payload, or rather the lack of it. The salesman informed then that overloading was not an issue in Europe as no one is ever stopped and if you are it is only a matter of a 30Euro fine so load it up and don't worry too much about it.
I explained he would be very foolish to adopt that approach and his insurer would certainly not have the same opinion. I never saw them again so not sure if the sale went ahead.
Shocking sales tactics
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When I went to my local quarry and had my new to me van weight checked it came in at 3200 with minimal stuff in it. The chap at the weighbridge told me that he had had people coming in to have their vans weighed who did things like removing seats and anything else they could. They then sold their vans with a weighbridge cert showing a completly inaccurate unladen weight. Be careful out there.
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It's about time manufacturers and sales persons started coming clean on this. Journalists could also be more forthright when mentioning payloads and the clubs could play a part too. There needs to be far more emphasis on this.
It is still possible for a couple to enjoy a 3500kg MH but care is needed in selecting the right size and layout. This is where the sales persons guidance should come into play and also when extras are being considered. Even metalic paint adds weight and have you ever picked up those desireable Milenco Quattro levelling blocks?
I don't believe that any 4 or 6 berth MHs can be operated, as intended, at 3500kg and would be pushing it at 3700kg. The rear axle load on a 3500kg van is the same as a 3700kg van and that is the limiting factor.0 -
If a manufacturer produced a car that was incapable under normal circumstances of being driven at 30mph in a city there would be an outrage. Yet it appears to be acceptable to produce a motorhome which realistically cannot be fully utilised within its weight limit.
A large van which carries several people has the propensity to go over a 3500kg limit very easily, especially if there are many options fitted, the water tanks are full and/or there is a lot of extra equipment carried.
It seems to me that there is a lack of transparency here. To an extent the salespersons don't know and/or don't care and some manufactures manipulate specifications to produce a vehicle which on paper is fine but in the real world cannot deliver the dream which slick advertising promises.
The problem will get worse as the current breed of C1 drivers die off or reach 70, less drivers have suitable towing qualifications, and the size and complexity of motorhomes and the weight their base vehicles all increase.
I do think the Club could do a valuable service to their members here by :-
1. Being bluntly critical about real world weight limitations in quoted test drives. I appreciate that these are to an extent bought in rewrites but there is no excuse for misleading by omission.
2. In its handouts and web guidance give much better info on how weight limits are calculated and highlight the pitfalls.
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The real answer is to allow heavier weights to be driven on the B licence. I think I read in the latest Club magazine that once again there were moves afoot to increase the weight limit of the B licence to 4225Kgms. I consider most 3.5 ton C and A class motorhomes to be impractical.
peedee
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TBH Steve, it's not unreasonable to ask someone over 70 driving a large (possibly over 4 tons) vehicle to have a medical to prove they are fit to be driving it.......
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To be sure I need to revisit the weighbridge but that isn't easy in my area but will make the effort at some point.
I have the same issue PG, there are not many weighbridges in Essex and especially around Colchester where I live. Which one do you use?
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Hi MichaelT, I live near Colchester too. I used the weighbridge at Gladwell haulage company which is on the old A12 at Copdock nr Ipswich. It's not too far off route if travelling that way. Drive on halfway to weigh front axle then pull forward to weigh whole MH. The rear axle is calculated from the two readings.
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some are so touchy 
