Going Greener
Comments
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I seem to remember the Poolsbrook site was designed with some eco credentials. How about a green rating for any similar sites and a mention of what these energy saving devices are.
I don't know how many sites have solar panels to supplement electricity, it would be interesting to know. I don't know how cost effective they are on sites?
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"Greener" is not always what it looks.
Why are batteries so expensive? Well, they are made from things that need very big holes to be dug in the ground to get the materials, and a lot of water and electricity in the manufacture. So although their use is apparently green, there is a huge environmental cost in producing them. Then there is the unknown cost of disposal. Just throwing them back into a different hole inthe ground is definately NOT green, but who pays the huge water and power cost to recycle them?
"Mains" electricity is not green. A huge part of what is generated is dissipated in losses in transformers and transmission lines. A lot more big holes in the earth to get the metals to make them, and the environmental cost in producing them. The nuclear power stations are known to be costly to dispose of at end-of-life, but what about these huge "plastic" windmill blades - where will they go.
There are plenty more when one starts to look at whole of life costs and what is done to the environment go make things. It is all locked into the way our industrial society works, but does provide a lot of employment. Whatever we do for energy beyond the efforts of our own body has a down-side to it for the envoronment.
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Ah. That's where it's useful having better-informed people making comments. Thanks.
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Yes to all of this! Still haven't written to the dear CMC, I've been busy with family - may I incorporate some of this, too, please?
I'm intending to say that some ideas I'll suggest are those put forward in this discussion, just so they are reminded I'm only one of a growing number.0 -
A significantly greener route the UK van makers should take is to build a much higher percentage of them free of early life water leaks, or in a manner that can tolerate leaking if they find that too challenging.
Then many users would not have to keep changing them and they build as many sapping up the world's resources.
Possibly just far too big an ask.
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Can you expand on the N? It's an interesting point you make. There is no doubt that some 'green' issues' are expensive to initiate but save in the long run. Similar I guess to setting up a non EHUsystem in a 'van. - yes, you have to spend money but in the end you end up far better off and have a real appreciation of using power sensibly. I am on site in Wales at the moment and all around me, Solar panels are powering the units perfectly well. No generators here! I think what Hedge is saying is that the club is missing simple and easy ways of improving its green credentials (if they have any) Composters and recycling rainwater is not beyond them I'm sure. And certainly wouldn't cut too far into their precious profits It has been suggested that composters might not be used but if there is nowhere else to put your potato peelings, banana skins etc, then you have no choice We all know there are a few amongst us that prefer to make life easy for themselves by not complying to a few simple rules but they will always be with us. Generally though, I think people do care about the environment and we all need to think about future generations. Look how, from simple beginnings, recycling has taken off- it's something everyone does to some degree now and without really noticing it- it's in the Psyche!! The club should be going all out to do the maximum on recycling and green issues simply because of the business that it's in- promotion of the great outdoors and an alternative lifestyle. Sometimes, it's not about cost- its lack of awareness.
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SMART METERS will eventually be the norm. We will then have SMART CHARGING - excuse the double meaning but it's intentional.
SMART PRICING (CHARGING) will be introduced to adjust the price per KwH we all pay by the hour/minute according to national/regional demand levels.
SMART CHARGING will enable us to buy electricity at the most economic rate and store it at home in domestic batteries capable of easily powering a house for the off charge period.
Our national grid will manage the levels of demand so that our peak demand is reduced very much closer to our average demand, and the national capacity of our electricity generation will be approximately halved.
Our leisure industry will be forced to adjust and so will we. If the club doesn't wake up soon, the changes will be unmanageable.
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Hey, all, I'm really enjoying this thread - thank you for such positive and constructive posts!
I'm delighted meanwhile to learn of the Crossways dry toilet installation, that shows the CMC might be starting to move at last ?
And Obbernockle - yes to the leisure industry needing to catch up!
Interesting - I was originally hoping for more suggestions of measures we could take ourselves, and there have been some of these already, the electric bikes, and NevChap's list on recycling etc, but it's feeling to me as if most of us are wanting the sites we use, whether CMC or other, to catch up with the tidal movement and provide more eco-friendly measures - is that right? Maybe there's a limit to what we can do ourselves without totally reinventing the technology.
And as Navigateur says, most of what we do still depends on somebody further up the chain digging big holes in the ground, but indeed even that's beginning to change. OK, the recent brilliant records of the UK having days where all the power provided by wind and solar energy meant no fossil or nuclear was needed all day still depend on stuff from the ground in the equipment, but it's still reckoned to be more sustainable in the long term than what's needed to feed conventional power stations.
(Meanwhile between the CMC site moving at glacial speed on this computer, and our connection playing silly games, it's taken three attempts to post this so far, so I'll have another go later! ….Cuts and pastes what I've written so far for the second time, saves to desktop, re-starts computer, pastes back into CMC site, hopes it's not way out of date by the time it finally appears....)
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I am enjoying it too Hedge- Obbernockle's post I liked- particularly the last paragraph. Everyone knows the CMHC are more interested in selling their wares than addressing matters that will probably , in the long run, earn them less money, but will put them in great standing with the public. In a world where money is king, can we be surprised. Unfortunately,I think it will be up to individuals to do what they can. There has been some great suggestions on the thread. Sometimes I'm afraid, the good and correct course gets in the way of profits!!
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if there is nowhere else to put your potato peelings, banana skins etc, then you have no choice
Please don't put the banana skins into compost. They take literally years to degrade, even in the open air. Similarly, raw onions produce an acid that kills off some of the bacteria the break stuff down in compost.
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"Sometimes" , Merve ?! Sadly, all too many recent examples, tempting to quote here but way off topic, - such things as public health often being up there, illustrate how short term rewards for shareholders and/or top executive bonuses come before anything, whether it's safety of people using the products or whatever.
But the fact that more and more of us are taking an active interest, taking ownership of things we can do, even if they're only the thin ends of wedges, is wonderfully encouraging!
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Likewise from here - didn't know that. We knew that lemon skins and other citrus things made it too acid, from now on, no banana skins in our own heap! We're lucky, the local council does a food waste collection for their giant waste digester, which copes with everything from chicken bones (duly boiled!) to eggshells.
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I don't think I can get any greener with my outfit, perhaps buying shell's V Power diesel might help with emissions, but otherwise I don't see what else I can personally do without sacrificing comfort. I have a 120w solar panel, a large 200APH battery and all but my low wattage kettle is powered from it. I have two rubbish bins, one for recycled rubbish and the other for waste. I consider the major stumbling blocks to achieving more are the site facilities themselves. Not all have recycling facilities and those in the UK which offer good EHU free pitching are few and far between, so the solar panel does not get as much use as I would like.
peedee
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I think its a shame that there are a lot of people prepared to do much more to reduce their energy consumption but the infrastructure simply isn't ready yet. We get really cross at home about the plastic used for packing stuff, and we simply don't know whether its recycleable or not. We know that there is too much of it though. People need to be educated bout recycling, and about energy usage and energy waste.
Clubs like this one should be taking the lead, not dragging their heels.
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Absolutely!! Well said. The packaging industry has an awful lot to answer for. I remember being sent for a dozen eggs often as a kid- they were sold and placed in a paper bag!! I never dropped them!! I went to buy a pair of pliers the other day and they were bubble wrapped in reams of plastic- what's the point? They're pliers for goodness sake!!!. All polystyrene tetrapak for fast food should be banned- there is a perfectly useable cardboard alternative- cardboard can either be burnt safely or recycled - not lie in a landfill for 1000yrs.I will only use Fish and Chip shops that either wrap in paper or use cardboard boxes now . I once asked a F&C shop why they used polystyrene containers. The answer was 'portion control' I asked what the scoop in her hand was for then? I asked for my meal just to be wrapped and not boxed. She was really put out! I explained that if the boxes had been cardboard it can be recycled - she saw my argument and agreed that she had never thought about it and that she would pass my thoughts onto the boss! We can all do our bit for the environment- it just takes a bit of courage sometimes.
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Hear hear from here too! We seem to be going more and more towards what we want from sites.
It's as Merve says, if we, the customers, don't vote with voices and if necessary, feet, nothing will change.
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Having just got back from Norfolk, I was surprised at the lack of recycling facilities. We ended up bringing our plastic/cardboard/glass home.
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Many areas do not require you to sort waste as it is all processed prior to disposal. It depends on the contracts each local authority has in place with waste operators.
The only reason some areas have adopted a household sorting system with various bins is to raise the profile of recycling. It's rarely as effective as mechanical separation but it gets people thinking about waste more.
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That's admirably conscientious, I'm impressed! When we encountered a site fairly early during a 3 week trip earlier this year which didn't offer any recycling bins, we found ourselves automatically separating stuff out, then realising, and binning it while feeling rather guilty - I confess we didn't then carry it on further round!
JayEss, does that mean that all local councils are doing recycling regardless of us sorting ? I'm feeling surprised that our local council would bother sending extra crews round in extra, specialised, vehicles, just to help us focus our minds, especially in these times of swingeing cuts, but cheered if the other places truly are recycling too.0 -
Yes HH they are. Government targets apply to all areas but how they choose to meet them is down to each authority. Some use kerbside sorting, some use MRF facilities.
Our area changed from a mixed recycling collection to kerbside sorting. The percentage figures look better but the volumes of recyclables collected have dropped dramatically. The crates they give us are pretty small and I've noticed an awful lot more fires under cover of darkness recently.
The only sensible separation is glass. The last thing the paper industry want is glass mixed with paper. What do you suppose we have to put in one of our crates?
There's a MRF near me that sorts so efficiently that you find bales of different coloured cans. Interestingly when I visited I watched the sorted waste from our own collection being tipped on the floor and mixed up. Plants like this need truly mixed waste.
Waste sorting by householders appeals to many and helps people feel they are recycling. They aren't recycling though. Just sorting.
Here's a good example of a MRF
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Interesting - thanks for that! - so the bin we fill, here at home, as non-recyclable waste maybe still gets sorted before heading to landfill? Or will our lot be relying on us to do their sorting, rather than having a plant, I wonder ? And thus all UK caravan/MH sites will have waste already going through the same machinery whether we separate out things (other than glass) or not?
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What happens with your domestic waste collection depends on the individual contract the council has with the operator. All waste has to be pre treated before landfill but this can include sorting
Caravan sites will have a commercial contract. Chances are that most of the waste from separate bins will all go on the same load to be put through a MRF. Again it depends on the contract and that's why different sites have different requirements
Sorting waste into different bins has done a lot to raise awareness of the need to recycle. The UK is close to the 50% target for recycling of household waste but interestingly the percentage dropped last year If our area is anything to go by they are collecting an awful lot less recyclable materials since switching to kerbside sorting (small containers and more restrictions on what you can put in them) Areas that collect mixed recycling seem to do better
It's a complex industry but nobody needs to take waste home just because there isn't a suitably labelled bin
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Don't get yourselves too worried about plastic lasting virtually for ever. I picked up yesterday one of these blocks of four 13A sockets with a lead and a plug. Fortunately it was't powered at the time as it just fell apart and I was left holding a collection of various metal innards.
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