Towing a Smart Car
I wish to tow a Smart Car on a trailer behind my motorhome. Accordingly I have purchased a Smart Car with a kerb weight of approx. 830kg, this is about as light as they come.
Having started my search for a second hand trailer I have come across a number of adverts that offer Brian James Bantam trailers with a claimed gross laden weight of 1300kg and a carrying capacity of 1050kg - but where shown (on three adverts), the plates on the trailers tell a different story, gross laden weight 1000kg, carrying capacity 770kg and yet the sellers have been carrying Smart Cars on these outfits.
Does anyone out there have a Brian James Bantam trailer that can offer me advice on whether it is legal to tow a Smart Car on such a trailer. Admittedly the kerb weight of a vehicle does include the driver and without his assumed weight of 65kg the towed vehicle weight comes down below 770kg but I am not sure if this is an acceptable way of viewing the gross laden weight of the outfit.
Can anyone help me?
Rodney
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Hi, yes my Smart Car was registered in 2010 and the data I quoted was straight out of the Owner's Manual, including the fact that the kerb weight of 825kg. includes an allowance of 68kg for the driver and in fact a 90% full fuel tank but if whether it be 825 or greater is not my concern, I am worried that I might buy a trailer which is not rated to carry the vehicle.The trailers I have seen advertised have all been supposed to carry 1050kg but the plates on the A frame suggest otherwise and yet the owners all state they they have been carrying Smart Cars on them??
Yes, I know I could buy a new one which meets the spec. but my pockets are not that deep.
What I am hoping is to hear from someone who tows a Smart Car on a Bantam or other bespoke trailer and find out if my concerns are justified.
Rodney
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If the 825kg includes the driver and a 90% full fuel tank then it's not the kerbweight although they may have called it that. UK legislation defined kerbweight to exclude the driver, but it does include a 100% full fuel tank.
Besides, whatever is published in an owner's manual, you cannot assume that the figure applies to your particular car. The only safe way is to have the car actually weighed. The actual weight is almost invariably higher than any published data.
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Hi rlhugo,
Why the need for a Trailer? Another option is to tow your Smart Car using an A-Frame, I know you would have to have the smart Cars' rear light clusters adapted to work as trailer lights & the additional braking ETC, but this is not difficult for a Qualified Auto Electrician. I know it would cause additional wear & tear on the cars tyres, brakes and suspension but having said this, you would be wearing out tyres on the trailer and the cars’ suspension would still have additional wear as it bounces up & down on the trailer while travelling. It would of course, be harder to reverse than a trailer i.e. double swivel like the old HGV draw-bar Trailers!
Colin
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Hi Lutz, you may well be correct, you seem to know what you are talking about but my concern is that if I am stopped by a policeman, home or abroad, how will they check to see if I am overweight? Presumably the weights on the chassis plate of the trailer will show what it can carry but where is the data base of kerb weights? Or am I supposed to have a weighbridge ticket. This concern (as you will see from my earlier posting) is all because I now need a trailer. I have been searching and a number of sellers seem to have been carrying Smart cars on trailers that are plated 1000kg gross laden weight, 230 or 250 unladen weight and 750 or 770 maximum load. If I could be certain that my 2010 Smart for two was legitimately 750kg or less I would not need to worry but all my info' is that it is heavier and therefore I cannot legally carry my car on one these trailers. I wonder how they have been managing?
Many thanks for your reply, Rodney
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Hello Snowy1, yes an A Frame is very attractive but I have heard a number of horror stories from people who have been stopped while towing on the continent and fined - one person even said that in Santander the police were waiting on the dockside for drivers towing with an A Frame and issuing spot fines.
I followed this up and found nothing to support these claims but I did find that the issue of A Frames was raised a few months ago in the French parliament. A statement was subsequently issued to the effect that the only safe and legal way to tow a car in France was on a trailer.
The fact that they are considered safe and legal in the UK does not seem to carry much weight on the continent.
Many thanks for your reply, Rodney
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It'll carry even less weight after March 2019.
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The usual procedure for the powers-that-be to check if one's trailer is overweight is to ask the driver to pull it with its wheels over a portable weighbridge. That will, of course, only determine the axle load and not the overall weight, but if the measured figure is close to the MTPLM they might proceed to check the noseweight as well. The sum of the two figures will be the overall weight which they would then compare with the plated limit. They would not be interested in what the Smart weighs as there could be other items on the trailer, too, in addition to the car, or the MIRO of the trailer is not what the manufacturer published. If you want to be sure that you are not exceeding limits, the only safe way is to have the Smart and the unladen trailer weighed. There is no such thing as an accurate database of kerbweights. Kerbweight is specific to each and every car (and trailer).
If others are towing Smarts on trailers plated at 1000kg then it would seem that they are either willing to take the risk of the laden trailer possibly being slightly overweight, or they are living in blissful ignorance.
Fact is that A-frames are illegal throughout the Continent and only tolerated sometimes, if you are lucky, so that is no real option if you wish to tour the Continent at any time. By the way, strictly speaking, they aren't legal in the UK either, but only not illegal.
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I would ignore what other people have been doing and go by the book and make sure that the carrying capacity of a trailer was more than the kerb weight of the car. I feel pretty sure that any road side check would be done according to the plated weights so why risk being fined for overloading a trailer?
If you want to risk it you may as well use an A-Frame on the Continent, many do and seem to get away with it except in Spain. I find towing a car on the Continent totally unnecessary except perhaps if you are planning to overwinter in Spain. If so have you considered hiring a car. It is not that expensive and many do just that
peedee
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I would suggest, if you have any queries about Brian James trailers and loading weights, give Brian James a call.
They have always been very helpful to queries I have raised with them. And their trailers are used extensively in the motor sport arena.
rgds
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One a slightly different topic. Smart cars have the engine in the rear, most other small cars have them in the front.
This makes the design of a small trailer critical, as the weight (centre of gravity) needs to between the hitch and axle. The short trailer bed limits the amount of room to obtain the correct nosewight.
this why BJ trailers make specific, short trailers for Smart cars and different short trailers for small cars ie Aygo, IQ, C1s etc,
Rgds
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We were advised against putting an A frame on a Smart recently. Trailers are the only 100% way to take a car abroad, however some sites are now starting to charge extra if you have a trailer, doesn't matter whats on it or in it its anything from 2 - 6€ per night extra.
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Hi rlhugo,
Many thanks for your reply, I did not know about the possibility that in some countries A-frames on Smart-type-cars are not legal. Re-thinking about A-frames, they may not be such a good idea in any case i.e. the cost of having to adapt the Smart Car for A-frame towing and having to re-pay this amount every time you decide to change the smart car due to age etc. In theory, you would only buy the trailer once.
Just a note about trailer weights, I may stand to be corrected on this? As far as I’m aware, there are two types of trailers; Semi-trailers (trailers that we all know) and what is referred to as a Independent-trailer, what’s the difference? Simi-trailers have part of their load weight born by the prime mover and Independent-trailers have none of their load weight born by the prime mover i.e. Drawbar-trailer with dolly or even a Smart-car towed by an A-frame, just to mention a few.
Semi-trailers; We all know that part of their load is born by the tow-vehicle, we would think that if the trailers’ axle(s) weight(s) is/are correct when loaded, then the trailer can not be over weight, but, when the nose weight is then added, this could then be over weight. I understand that when a gross plated trailer weight is given, it’s the whole weight i.e. The trailer, its load and the drawbars nose weight all added together, I think Lutz may of mentioned something on these lines previously?
Colin
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One small but major point.
When a car is modified to take A frame fittings , the front of the car is now different to that the manufacturing certificate of conformation was based on.If you have an accident and "Suem n Screwm" pick up on a modification, the insurance company and keeper could be in for a load of expensive legal trouble.
you can guess where the buck will stop.
As yet untested, the same as the legality of towing with an A frame. I would not want to be a test case.
Just because the call centre said that towing on an A frame was ok, does not mean that they are correct or have the authority to make that decision . Have that decision confirmed by letter.
rgds
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There is no real need to distinguish between an 'independent' trailer (i.e. one which doesn't transmit any vertical load on the towbar) and a semi-trailer (one which does, either through a towbar or a plate). In both cases the total weight of the trailer is what it transmits to the ground when standing alone (in the case of a caravan, with the jockey wheel also on the weighbridge).
It's that total weight which counts as far as the trailer's plated limit is concerned.
The same applies to the towing vehicle, but in that case, its total weight also includes the trailer's noseweight, if any.
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Following through some of the links given above I found a Department of Transport Information Sheet titled "American Caravan/Trailer Brakes and coupling up to 3500kg maximum laden weight"
At the foot of the first page it states; "In the case of a semitrailer or centre-axle trailer, the maximum mass to be considered for classifying the trailer corresponds to the static vertical load transmitted to the ground by the axle or axles of the semitrailer or centre-axle trailer when coupled to the towing vehicle and carrying its maximum load."
That bit about being coupled would mean that the nose weight is not counted as part of the trailer weight.
Cat + pigeons?
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I don't know how the Americans classify their trailers but over on our side of the Atlantic the weight of the trailer always includes the noseweight. Only the towed weight is "the static vertical load transmitted to the ground by the axle or axles"
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