Continental v UK built motorhomes
I have noticed over the three years since we switched to a motorhome that the number of UK registered but continental built motorhomes on our roads seems to be increasing year by year. However, on our recent three week trip to France I didn't see a single UK built motorhome with a continental registration.
Does this say anything about the relative merits of UK versus continental motorhomes?
Comments
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1 .. Its to far from the factory to return them for all the water leaks and warantee work thats required.
2 .. I don't think that they would put up with all the faults that need fixing.
3 .. They are not going to part with vast sums of money for shodily built products
4 .. Example of British Building copy and paste the link and see what we can produce it's a disgrace
http://youtu.be/kugH8bU_44Y0 -
From our experience of five motorhomes, before we changed to a caravan, we found the French the best and our favourite would be the Rapido but each to their own. Have said that we had to take back both Rapidos with various faults so its not just the Brit
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I suspect it's far more to do with UK Motorhomes not being marketed in Europe because our manufacturers are fairly small scale compared to the massive brands on the Continent. Caravans a different matter given the numbers of Dutch owned Swift and Elddis.
David
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on the continent, most users will be eating and lounging outside the van in the sunshine...hence their vans generally have smallish lounges and kitchens (usually no oven but with good storage drawers and large fridges for the weather) and focussing more
on large comfortable beds, needed after all that outside 'activity'. they might have garages to store all that outside kit. gas lockers will be larger and have easy access as gas is cheaper over 'there' and folk are happy to use it.uk vans generally will have more comprehensive kitchens with large ovens for roast dinners, but smaller fridges and poor storage. their lounges will generally be bigger, but wouldnt get used, and their beds are generally more compromised, usually short on
width and length, and the outside access to storage is generally poorer, a lack of decent lockers and few with garages. gas lockers will be small and compromisedjust different emphasis placed on the things demanded by the markets they are sold in....
not a comment on 'quality' merely on the design requirements.
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DK, BB, those are a couple of pertinent observations. The respective industries north and south of La Manche may be assumed to know their home markets, and thus design accordingly. Couple this with the fact that UK manufacturers seem able to sell all they can build to the (expanding?) home market at present provides them with little incentive to market abroad. Do any even exhibit at any of the continental motorhome shows?
However the reverse seems less true. I think all the large UK dealerships sell continental makes, and the manufacturers attend our major shows. We see UK registered continental motorhomes on every site we visit over here, so if the internal layouts (larger sleeping areas, smaller kitchens and lounges etc) are not what the UK manufacturers consider the market wants, either they are getting this wrong, or perceived (imagined?) better build quality and styling of continental makes overrides layout considerations.
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Q, an astute post...
one answer might be that more Brits are using their vans for at least part of the year 'over there' and, as such, are 'reverting to (continental) type' in plumping for vans that have better storage (for those long trips) and the promise of more time spent
outside.....?as i said earlier, 'quality' is more difficult to quantify, but like motor cars, some are built to a price level (and the resulting quality) and some are built to a quality level (and the resulting price).
a quick trip to any dealer selling £40k vans will tell you which end youve arrived. some of the fittings and 'finish' (many arent finished....) on vans at this price range are truly horrific....
one new trait on the conti market which is taking off here, is for upmarket brands (hymer, dethleffs, knaus) to be marketing lower specced versions under new brand names....carado, sunlight etc...
same top quality design, same production lines, less std kit, lower price.....great quality...at a price level to compete with low/mid range swift/AT/elddis
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Couple of other points. One of the well known UK manufacturers is actually owned by the largest producer of motorhomes in France. The UK market is having something of a purple patch at the moment so its possible that it does not have the capacity to meet all the demand, this might well encourage people to buy European models which are usually available off the shelf rather than expanded delivery dates. Whilst the home market is so buoyant does it actually make sense to try and establish sales in Europe?
David
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yes, Auto trail is owned by Trigano, a very large continental group....
i guess there are questions like whether a UK brand would be prepared to take the risk in expanding capacity into an unproven market and also if they are happy being a largish fish in a smallish pond.
while euro MH exports to the UK are becoming significant, they are a long way from the figures achieved in the home markets.
one thing that is also happening is that the euro vans are now being kitted out with full size ovens to appeal to the uk market.. even Hymer are now offering the Thetford cooker as an option.
so, euro vans can be tweaked for the UK, but what of a UK van in, say Germany or France?
there would be little cry for a Thetford oven taking up most of the kitchen where the contis love their large storage drawers, not awkward cupboard doors an unreachable shelving...
also, skimping on bed sizes (the bain of many a uk van) is not an easy thing to remedy for the larger/taller german frame, nor is the oft limited external storage and poor access to it....
so, possibly, we have modified euro vans, with solid basic quality starting to appeal to the uk market....the other way round, not so sure at the moment....
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When we first looked at taking the plunge into motorhomes we were quite taken with with a Bessacar, which had a front pullman dinette and rear caravan style lounge. loads of living space, big kitchen with all the gizmos, but tiny "bathroom" and what can
only be described as occasional shower. All in a >7.5m body and 4.2 tonne plate. It was obvious to us that there was precious little storage, but It was like our old van and would have lots of space if any of our grown up kids came away with us.The salesman suggested that before signing on the dotted we go and have a look at the Euros, especially the drop down bed variants, suggesting that 99% of the time we would be away on our own and that in all likelihood our paired up kids would prefer to
camp alongside. With our eyes opened we were struck by the liveability of the continental vans and plumped for a 610 Chausson, over a metre shorter, 3.5 tonnes, a proper ensuite with full size shower tray, loads of storage space, room to sit 6 round the table
and still capable of sleeping four on those nights that you wouldn't leave a dog out in a tent! It's not as plush as the UK vans, but still very stylish with concealed led lighting etc, but it is very usable and parkable. On first impressions, we love it.0 -
BB is spot on with his analogy.
We recently changed to a Hobby m/h which has the front lounge built around the dining table which is still comfortable.Massive storage drawers under the sink and hob whilst still providing an oven over the large fridge freezer. A garage which takes all the
required accessories and a fixed side bed which even fits my 6ft 6" frame.We looked at UK vans but couldn't find anything that came close to our requirements.
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Having had both, an Autotrail and now a Carthago, I am getting bored when at home. With the Autotrial long hours of home time was spent repairing or replacing, sometimes at considerable expense, all the bits that broke or fell off in normal
use during the previous trip. The Carthago has had only one relatively minor fault and just sits on the drive ready to go again.Out of interest what year was your Autotrail, we have a Chausson at the moment but are at the serious end of considering an Autotrail, just wondered if it is something they have improved on, if it's an Autotrail thing or if you were just unlucky?
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One point about Continental and UK vehicles is the habitation door.
A UK built vehicle will have the door on the near side (passenger side) so that getting out will have the passenger stepping onto the pavement while in the UK.
A Continental vehicle will have the habitation door on the drivers side of a right hand drive vehicle and when stopping by the roadside in Britain you will step out directly onto the road.
If you use the MH only in the UK then a UK made vehicle makes more sense from a safety aspect.
If you intend travelling mainly in Europe a Continental vehicle would be a better option regarding safety.
I presume not many, if any, UK manufacturer makes a vehicle with the door on the 'right' side for Continental driving and no Continental buyer in their right mind will buy a vehicle that lets them and their children step out on to the road
every time they stop – that's probably one reason why you don't see many UK vehicles with foreign plates.Many Continental manufacturers now make models that appeal more to UK buyers and that is why we bought our Pilote a couple of years ago – large fridge freezer, good size garage, fixed comfortable rear bed, large oven and gas rings, gas
locker for two 11kg bottles and plenty of locker storage space.0 -
My AT was a late 2009 and was not good but when we were thinking of changing we looked a buying another. We looked a three actual vehicle at two AT agents. At the first, with just one model in which we were interested, the salesman spent most of his pitch
time explaining that on the pre-delivery inspection they would put this and that right and I should not worry about all the obvious faults.At the second dealer the salesman had two vehicles of interest and suggested that we should have a look at them on our own. He followed that by saying don’t worry about the internal doors that are falling off they would be repaired before the vehicle was
delivered; all very encouraging
. Despite reservations we went and had a look and could see so many other production faults we just walked away.
I hate to think of the problems we could not see. Frankly the new vehicles were far worse than our existing one.The last straw was when we were heading across France to Germany we stopped on a site and were joined by a gaggle of AT owners returning home from an AT owners club rally in Spain. That evening we spent some time chatting with them and a good hour was spent
by them discussing all the faults they were experiencing, the running repairs they had done, and the problems they would have to get fixed when they got home – if they did
.Good luck if you buy one, IMO you will need it.
Thanks for that, actually your 1st scenario has already happened to us but we walked away in the end, mainly because they never offered us enough on the day to part exchange....as it happens they rang back 2 days later with an increased offer, we still declined
don't like the thought of them trying it on with the 1st offer. Food for thought though.0 -
One point about Continental and UK vehicles is the habitation door.
A UK built vehicle will have the door on the near side (passenger side) so that getting out will have the passenger stepping onto the pavement while in the UK.
A Continental vehicle will have the habitation door on the drivers side of a right hand drive vehicle and when stopping by the roadside in Britain you will step out directly onto the road.
If you use the MH only in the UK then a UK made vehicle makes more sense from a safety aspect.
If you intend travelling mainly in Europe a Continental vehicle would be a better option regarding safety.
I presume not many, if any, UK manufacturer makes a vehicle with the door on the 'right' side for Continental driving and no Continental buyer in their right mind will buy a vehicle that lets them and their children step out on to the
road every time they stop – that's probably one reason why you don't see many UK vehicles with foreign plates.Many Continental manufacturers now make models that appeal more to UK buyers and that is why we bought our Pilote a couple of years ago – large fridge freezer, good size garage, fixed comfortable rear bed, large oven and gas rings, gas
locker for two 11kg bottles and plenty of locker storage space.Write your comments here...the side of the door is irrelevant, when ever I get out of the drivers door in my car or M/H I am always on the road side so do not see how it is any more dangerous!!
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We have had 4 British coachbuilt motor homes and have been pleased with all of them. 2 from Elldis and 2 from Swift, non of them leaked. We have just taken delivery of our 5th, a Swift Bolero. The latest construction techniques means the elimination of wood
from the build, time will tell whether this is an improvement but it should be.
We looked at continental vans but nothing really appealed, Euro lounges and fixed tables don't work for us. Ovens are usually at an unsafe height or back breakingly low. When comparing price the continentals came out considerably dearer, especially as they
have a huge option list. Upgrades for heating/ water and even fire retardent upholstery (I thought we are in the EU) come at a price. The Bolero comes complete with everything we wanted and we only added a second battery, bike rack and towbar which we would
have to do whatever we bought.
The Bolero isn't perfect and there are some silly finishing details that won't last long but having a perceived saving of £11000 over the equivalent continental rivals I can live with them and make changes easily.
We made our choice and paid the money, time will tell whether the decision to buy British for the 7th time (we have also had 2 British PCVs) was the right one but have no reason to believe otherwise.0 -
Quote...the side of the door is irrelevant, when ever I get out of the drivers door in my car or M/H I am always on the road side so do not see how it is any more dangerous!
You get out when you've looked at your wing mirror and seen it's okay to get out.
You don't get the benefit of a wing mirror to see what's approaching when opening the habitation door – I presume passengers, especially children, don't clamber out of the drivers door when disembarking.
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Quote...the side of the door is irrelevant, when ever I get out of the drivers door in my car or M/H I am always on the road side so do not see how it is any more dangerous!
You get out when you've looked at your wing mirror and seen it's okay to get out.
You don't get the benefit of a wing mirror to see what's approaching when opening the habitation door – I presume passengers, especially children, don't clamber out of the drivers door when disembarking.
We use the passenger door for anyone in the habitation area to disembark if parked at a busy roadside. Not an issue.
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My friend has just imported a top end motorhome from Germany, saving a fortune on the UK price.
Comparing his contimental van to my British one, there are clear differences such as:
No oven
No electric hot plate
No microwave
Not many 230 v sockets
No spare wheel
No heat exchanger
The list goes on.
Russ
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Russ, as you know, the markets are very different regarding 'essentials'....
no oven is the default position on a euro van as they do all their cooking outside....so no need for one or a hotplate, theyll be using their ourside version...although almost all will supply one, a Tec tower like ours or a full Thetford with hotplate like
Hymer and others are adding to their options lists..cooking fresh product from the market everyday doesnt require a microwave, and anyway, the sites' amperage level (usually 6 amp) reflects the reduced need for all these devices....
...so, no devices, less 240 sockets, although we have 5....plus more that ive added...
spare wheel?....just depends on the supplier, uk or euro....
heat exchanger, yes ive seen these on just about every £40k uk van.....not.
hardly fair to compare your £70k+ Kontiki with an 'average' euro (or indeed, uk) van in this respect.
euro vans are different for a reason, their users use them differently....to cater for our market, most are tweaking layouts and spec appropriately.....
there's easily the converse argument regarding how a typical UK van doesnt work for some....but these will belong to the customer.....its horses for courses....
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Must say when we were looking if there was a microwave we immediately discounted it, total waste of storage space! As for the rest we have a spare wheel (or so we were told not crawled undrrscore to look yet) we have 5 240v sockets plus a blanked off one
in the loo, 2 USB socket plus the Fiat one, oven, aes fridge freezer, large double bed and lots of kitchen storage drawers. Suits us but may not suit everyone if you want a traditional British caravan layout which we didn't.0 -
I wouldn't walk away from a van that suited just because it had a microwave fitted. Nose and face springs to mind. An unused microwave "is" a storage space, smaller than a cupboard yes, but you can still put things in it. Bread and packets of crisps usually
lurk in ours.
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I wouldn't walk away from a van that suited just because it had a microwave fitted. Nose and face springs to mind. An unused microwave "is" a storage space, smaller than a cupboard yes, but you can still put things in it. Bread and packets of crisps usually
lurk in ours.Write your comments here...We did not exactly walk away but it was a cross not tick in a box!!
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UK manufacturers do tend to eschew storage for 'devices'...
a UK MH kitchen with full oven, grill, m/w and small under unit fridge is likely to be woefully short of decent deep drawer storage.
conversely, a typical Conti kitchen with, say, six deep wide drawers (like ours) cant have space for an underslung fridge (ours is seperate tall fridge/freezer) and cooker (ours oven/grill is over the fridge) or M/W (our m/w 'space' is a further large overhead storage locker.
as stated earlier, different emphasis placed on different usage patterns....different priorities dictate market driven design.
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Not all British motorhomes come like that though. My Bolero has a full cooker which means the oven is at a safe height and the grill is seperate. There is also a small storage unit below. It has a seperate tall fridge freezer with cupboards above and below
and a large kitchen cupboard where an underslung fridge would be. This space may be better if it was designed as drawers but not ever had drawers so can't really compare. At least as a cupboard I can adapt it by adding shelves if required. The kitchen also
has a large overhead cupboard that houses all the crockery and glasses with a microwave alongside. That leaves 7 overhead lockers, 2 seat boxes(n/s limited due to gas locker that takes 2x11kg bottles) an outside locker(used to be a 2x6kg gas locker) and under
the bed for storage. The free standing table that allows free movement in the lounge is housed in its own cabinet so is easy to extract when needed. What haven't I got, well, the perceived better build quality and....a coffee maker.
The best motorhome is the one that you like the look of and has a layout that suits you, wherever it comes from.0 -
Haha, PG, remember, i am particularly familiar with your kitchen layout....a very well designed kitchen and van.....
...but IMHO large drawers are better than cupboads...having had both, in the van and at home...
...and as we prefer instant coffee, i took the coffee maker out, lol...
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I completely agree with the last post. The quality starts with the design and I believe its worth paying more for a mainland europe motorhome. The layouts tend to be more to our taste too.
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