Poor maths again
Once again it's been shown that maths teaching in our schools is dire.
Kids in tbe UK are at least three years behind their far eastern equivalent.
Apparantly it's going to cost us an extra £41million to get our teachers to teach maths in a better way......a way that works.
Why don't they just do it better anyway?
Comments
-
The children in the far east are under enormous pressure and tested far more than ours. Don't wish that on our kids. I don't know the answer but surely some kids must be reaching a decent level? Lets not chuck
the baby out with the bath water!0 -
Actually why is it soo important anyway? Basic maths is basic maths. As long as we have the skills to balance our cheque books and bank accounts and manage to add up our shopping; unless you are going in to a maths related career why are we so hung up about
it. What IS this hang up about youngsters getting maths qualifications? Level 1 is sufficient.I have a University degree (Honours) and one of the conditions for me to be accepted onto my degree course was that I had an 'O' Level in Maths & English amonst other qualifications but actually, ask me to sit the same qualifications now, I would not have
a clue. I have actually asked my teaching colleagues at work to put me through some mock exams so I know what learners are up against. I have no confidence that I am going to hit that bar.i am not suggesting for a moment that Education in Maths and English are not important. I would suggest however, a more effective way of imparting that information and helping kids learn is a good idea. Life is about innovation and if a new way works, bring
it on, even if it costs lots of money. After all, it's not going to the NHS is it0 -
I have a feeling this thread isn't really about maths as such
0 -
No one has said that maths teaching in UK is 'dire' Further, it's also impossible to compare 2 different systems of education in two totally disperate countries with different philosophies - there is more to education than achieving certain grades in maths
alone.0 -
you have to compare like with like, not all children over there attend school while most of ours do, parents pay for extra classes over there, while here they mostly don't.
But I think you are quite correct ian and you must feel bitter about the poor education that you yourself recieved amounting to two o levels wasn't it? Of course if you had not played truant it could have been three?
..Do not take the bait
0 -
No one has said that maths teaching in UK is 'dire' Further, it's also impossible to compare 2 different systems of education in two totally disperate countries with different philosophies - there is more to education than achieving certain grades in maths
alone.very true, based on exam results we're mid table in Europe and actually above USA
0 -
you have to compare like with like, not all children over there attend school while most of ours do, parents pay for extra classes over there, while here they mostly don't.
But I think you are quite correct ian and you must feel bitter about the poor education that you yourself recieved amounting to two o levels wasn't it? Of course if you had not played truant it could have been three?
..Do not take the bait
I think you're right
0 -
Look here, Corners, if Ian says it's dire, then dire it must be - he couldn't possibly be wrong could he? But wait .... he hasn't had backing from "north of the border" yet, so maybe there's still room for doubt?
Anyway, all I can conclude is that the whole thing's gone to hell in a handcart since I retired 6 years ago!
0 -
Look here, Corners, if Ian says it's dire, then dire it must be - he couldn't possibly be wrong could he? But wait .... he hasn't had backing from "north of the border" yet, so maybe there's still room for doubt?
Anyway, all I can conclude is that the whole thing's gone to hell in a handcart since I retired 6 years ago!
your totally right, would you like to come back?
0 -
Mid table in Europe? My yes, that's really quite an achievement isn't it!
Teachers (and ex teachers) of maths will, of course, try to defend the situation. They will find all the excuses under tbe sun to try to rubbish this report. Presumably they believe that all this extra spending to try to improve standards is unnecessary?
......but given that they have led to this poor state of affairs, they are perhaps understandably defensive.
Incidently, if people were simply able to 'balance their books' and sort out their finances, that would probably be reasonable. But the level of out-of-control debt in this country is dreadful and a reason for national shame.
0 -
Maths results are one thing but I’ll bet that the teachers in these far eastern schools would not show the same compassion and understanding to one of their pupils as this teacher.
0 -
what report are you taking about Ian?
0 -
One cannot simply transpose educational successes from one country or culture to another. For a while Finland was all the rage (no uniform, later school starting age, no league tables or Ofsted pressure, all masters teaching profession and, most tellingly,
lowest income inequality in EU).Now it's 'mastery' transposed from Far East/ Singaporepore/ China. In Singapore they have a 'Teachers Day' where the country shows its appreciation for their well paid professionals. A 'high quality' text book is central to this type of learning and teaching
and all pupils do the same work. In Hong Kong teacher/tutor celebrities earn more than footballers and are packaged and sold like commodities. Many other countries admire the problem solving capabilities of our students and young people.Somewhere in all this is the middle and best way; education is subject to whims and fashions and massive accountability pressures. Good and great teachers just do their best for the pupils they have; they mitigate the wildest idealogocal execesses, ensure
that the curriculum is engaging, their lessons are high quality and accessible for all the different abilities included in the class and work incredibly hard so that all their pupils make progress.
0 -
I would agree with about the algebra not being particulary useful to most people who don't require it in their jobs, but O levels in their day were more of a preparation for higher education and technical jobs and they were used more as a measure of academic and mental ability.
However thats not to say something should only be studied if its going to be useful, you probably use a lot of the skills learnt using alegbra far more than you realise, in working backwards from an answer, making logical correct steps from one to another, using the the rules of arithemtic in the right order and why they work, every time you do proportion, you're using the skills taught in algebra
0 -
One cannot simply transpose educational successes from one country or culture to another. For a while Finland was all the rage (no uniform, later school starting age, no league tables or Ofsted pressure, all masters teaching profession and, most tellingly,
lowest income inequality in EU).Now it's 'mastery' transposed from Far East/ Singaporepore/ China. In Singapore they have a 'Teachers Day' where the country shows its appreciation for their well paid professionals. A 'high quality' text book is central to this type of learning and teaching
and all pupils do the same work. In Hong Kong teacher/tutor celebrities earn more than footballers and are packaged and sold like commodities. Many other countries admire the problem solving capabilities of our students and young people.Somewhere in all this is the middle and best way; education is subject to whims and fashions and massive accountability pressures. Good and great teachers just do their best for the pupils they have; they mitigate the wildest idealogocal execesses, ensure
that the curriculum is engaging, their lessons are high quality and accessible for all the different abilities included in the class and work incredibly hard so that all their pupils make progress.yes, spot on
0 -
I would agree with about the algebra not being particulary useful to most people who don't require it in their jobs, but O levels in their day were more of a preparation for higher education and technical jobs and they were used more as a measure of academic
and mental ability.However thats not to say something should only be studied if its going to be useful, you probably use a lot of the skills learnt using alegbra far more than you realise, in working backwards from an answer, making logical correct steps from one to another,
using the the rules of arithemtic in the right order and why they work, every time you do proportion, you're using the skills taught in algebra..spoken like a true (ex) teacher
.... and I do a technical job .... always have & still never needed my B times table .... used trig a few
times though
0 -
I would agree with about the algebra not being particulary useful to most people who don't require it in their jobs, but O levels in their day were more of a preparation for higher education and technical jobs and they were used more as a measure of academic
and mental ability.However thats not to say something should only be studied if its going to be useful, you probably use a lot of the skills learnt using alegbra far more than you realise, in working backwards from an answer, making logical correct steps from one to another,
using the the rules of arithemtic in the right order and why they work, every time you do proportion, you're using the skills taught in algebra..spoken like a true (ex) teacher
.... and I do a technical job .... always have & still never needed my B times table .... used trig a few
times thoughsorry WHAT? but how can you use trig without algebra????? It's impossible!!!!
What is your B times tables btw?
0 -
....
sorry WHAT? but how can you use trig without algebra????? It's impossible!!!!
What is your B times tables btw?
Easily .... a bit of transposition but not algegra as I remember.
B Times table? ...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqZo07Ot-uA It's Billy Connolly so expect a little colourful language
0 -
Once again it's been shown that maths teaching in our schools is dire.
Kids in tbe UK are at least three years behind their far eastern equivalent.
Apparantly it's going to cost us an extra £41million to get our teachers to teach maths in a better way......a way that works.
Why don't they just do it better anyway?
Strange that our best universities have people clamouring from all over the world for places in science, medicine and engineering. We produce some of the top engineers, mathematicians, scientific and medical researchers thanks to our approach to maths.
We must be getting something right.0 -
Standards of school education in the UK have been going backwards for a couple of decades now. --- IMO there is no point in head teachers sitting on their hands and saying our teaching methods are the best and have been for centuries, but does it matter
that other countries produce students with far greater qualities and qualifications in core subjects such as Mathematics, physics, chemistry and communication.Our educationalists should be looking hard at the teaching methods and teaching commitments of those successful countries and adopt the best into our country's outdated and ineffective schools.
Doing nothing and living in the past, is not an option, our kids deserve better than that.
K
0 -
As long as our children are happy and not under too much pressure then i dont care where we are in any "league table" and as far as the east is concerned who cares.
v9
Write your comments here...Thats all very well V9, but we now live in a world economy. For young people to get the best opportunities in life, they now have to compete with others from all over the world for the best jobs. Excellent qualifications do matter, even more so now. Employers will choose those who have the best qualifications, especially for opportunities in the real world, like Manufacturing Industry, scientific research, Engineering, Medicine and International Law.
Yes I admit, the UK can produce graduates in the performing arts, arts and crafts, and other airy fairy occupations. But that is not what builds the economy of a nation. Nor does it give our dedicated graduates a challenging and interesting future
0 -
I here what your saying K but i think todays children and young people are under too much pressure and speaking for myself i think the standard of teaching in the UK is as good as most other countries and lets be honest there is no gaurantee of a job no
matter how clever you are.And also looking at it another way the best education system in the world does,nt gaurantee to produce the best candidates for a job.v9
0 -
As long as our children are happy and not under too much pressure then i dont care where we are in any "league table" and as far as the east is concerned who cares.
v9
Write your comments here...Thats all very well V9, but we now live in a world economy. For young people to get the best opportunities in life, they now have to compete with others from all over the world for the best jobs. Excellent qualifications do matter,
even more so now. Employers will choose those who have the best qualifications, especially for opportunities in the real world, like Manufacturing Industry, scientific research, Engineering, Medicine and International Law.Yes I admit, the UK can produce graduates in the performing arts, arts and crafts, and other airy fairy occupations. But that is not what builds the economy of a nation. Nor does it give our dedicated graduates a challenging and interesting future
That's incredibly insulting to recent graduates and current students K - perhaps you didn't mean to be so rude?
The UK has nothing to fear about the standard of graduates in Maths, engineering etc and the number of foreign students suggests that these courses are well respected world wide.
As far as school standard maths goes - there are some exceptional and gifted mathematicians in every school, there are also some that just don't 'get' maths. It's possible that this sort of rote learning will help them to pass exams, whether it will instill
any mathematical ability is debatable0
