Confusion over Legal Lowing Limits for my car
Hi all,
I am new to caravanning and have just bought my first caravan - a little 2 berth, Bailey Pursuit 400/2.
I am currently borrowing my father's Land Rover Defender to tow my caravan (the Landy can tow 3.5 tonnes, so tows the caravan easily), but I am trying to work out if I can legally tow it with my car or not.
I am experienced in towing, as have been towing an Ifor William 510 horse trailer, (eg the big one) with 2 large horses inside, for about 13 years (again, using a Landy) so although this is my first caravan,
it's not my first towing session!
My car is a Dacia Logan 1.5 Dci Laureate 5dr Estate 5dr 2016
VIN thing on car/and VIN page in user manual says:
1670kg - MAM - Max Authorised Mass
2480kg - GWT - Gross Train Weight
0860kg - MPAW - Max Permissible Weight for front axle.
0950kg - MPAW - Max Permissible Weight for rear axle.
This is where it gets a bit confusing ...
The Max Braked Trailer Weight ....
The Brochure that came with the car said that the Max towing weight of a braked trailer is 1150kg.
The Log book(vehicle registration certificate, V5C) also states the Max Braked Trailer weight is 1150kg
I think the Driver's handbook (in the weights page) also agrees, (but without actually stating it, so it's not very easy to read), as it says:
Estate Versions:
Maximum permissible all-up weight (MMAC) - See VIN on car
Maximum permissible all-up weight (MMTA) - See VIN on car
Gross Train Weight (MTR) - See VIN on car
(The confusing bit here is that the acronyms don't match up - the 'VIN page' in the user manual uses the acronyms MAM, GTW and MPAW (as written above) and doesn't mention the acronyms MMAC or MMTA at all. Where 5 pages later
in the weights section, of the same user manual, they use these last two acronyms to refer you back to the VIN page!!! ..... however from researching I think they are other ways of saying MAM???) (Also on this page, they now give the acronym of MTR for Gross
Train Weight where on the VIN page, 5 pages earlier, they gave it the acronym of GTW!) .... I do wish they would make their minds up!!!
Braked Trailer Weight = The user manual states that this is found by calculating MTR - MMAC (So assuming MMAC is another name for MAM, my
calculations were 2480 - 1670 = 810kg (for when car is up to its MAM.)
Then below this, but on the same page, the user manual says:
Weight Transfer on Estate Vehicles (Depending on local laws)
If the Maximum Authorised Mass of the vehicle has not been reached, up to 340kg can be transferred to the braked trailer, within the limits of the vehicle's Gross Train Weight. (So my calculation gives 810 +
340 = 1150kg if the car is not fully loaded)
Other info From log Book
Mass in Service = 1165kg (another name for kerb weight I think?)
Other Info gathered from Towsafe website
Kerb Weight = 1165 kg (which is including 75kg allowance for a driver)
Gross Weight = 1670 kg
Gross Train Weight = 2480 kg
Max Pay load = 505kg
Other info gathered from the Brochure = This gave a Kerb weight that excluded the weight of the driver and 75kg more for pay load - but this
would tally up with the Kerb weight and Mass in Service weights above, if they both had that 75kg driver weight included in with them)
Kerb weight = (excluding driver) = 1090kg
Gross vehicle weight = 1670kg
Gross Train Weight = 2480 kg
Max pay load = 580 kg
Then the caravan is as follows: a
Bailey Pursuit 400/2
- Unladen Weight 918 kg
- MTPLM 1090 kg
So, am I correct in thinking that as the MTPLM of the caravan (1090kg) does not exceed the Max Towing limit stated on the vehicle registration certificate of 1150 kg it is therefore legal for me to tow this caravan? (Even though it does officially exceed
the stated Max Towing Weight of a braked trailer (810kg) for if the towing vehicle is up to its MAM (eg 1670kg?) ...... as long as ....... the combination of the weight of both the car and the caravan is less than the GTW of 2480 kg - so basically don't fill
either up to their max weights, and go visit a weight bridge to get the weights of car and caravan when filled with the 'essentials' that would be going on every trip, and then carefully weight everything and anything else that I put in either car or caravan
(eg food) to check I'm well under the GTW and stay that way?
And, if pulled by police, I'm guessing they will look at the VIN attached to the car, calculate that 2480 - 1670 = is 810kg, then go look at the plate on the caravan and see it says 1090kg and then drag me off to a weight bridge to do further research, rather
than just arrest me on the spot? So should I carry my vehicle registration certificate with me, so they can see that it states 1150kg as the max braked trailer, or will their AMPR computers be able to tell them that info?
Usually none of this will matter, as I'll be using Dad's landy, (it will stop me worrying about getting pulled over by the police!) but I'm thinking ahead just in case dad's using the Landy, or its off the road for some reason, as I'm wanting to book some
places in advanced, so if I do have the option of using my car as a back up, then that will be great.
Many thanks for your help and advice!!! (And apologies for the long email!)
Caroline.
aka 'Confused in Kent' ;-)
Comments
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Hi use this website & enter you car & Caravan details.......easy
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There is even a car and caravan match section on the Caravan Club site - if you are a member.
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I think from what i have read from your post that the Orion mptml and your Car kerb weight are the same so you are at 100% instead of the recomended 85% wich is ok if you feel confident towing ,or if possible keep the weight of what you put in your c/van
light,0 -
The kerb weight for towing calculations should include 75 kg for the driver so you are looming at 1165. This is still well over the 85% ratio suggested for beginners but is below the 100% that JVB66 refers to. I would say that the combination is not good and long term I would look for something a bit heavier but if you take care it is managable.
Try to keep a fair bit of weight in the car for a better towing ratio.
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You are guided by the Braked Towing Limit of the vehcile which we have checked and is 1150 KGs, as long as your caravan when loaded (1090 Kgs) is not over this figure then you are legal.
We would advise tht the cars kerb -weight is 1090 Kgs which makes the caravan 100% when fully loaded of the cars kerb -weight
We would advise extra weight in the car by people,luggage etc, load the caravan just to get the nose-weight right which you will need to check what that figure is with your Dacia dealer but dont fully load the caravan otherwise you may have some stability
issues in windy conditions.Need any more help call our Technical Help line at the Caravan Club on 01342 336611.
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As others have said, you are on the limit with your car and being a 16 reg you aren't going to want to change it so just be careful and enjoy. Note the 1.5 only has 90bhp/162 ft lb of torque so your going to have to use the gears wisely and anticipate on
hills etc.0 -
You have basically understood it correctly. So long as you don't exceed the gross train weight of 2480kg you can tow the caravan at its MTPLM of 1090kg so long as the car, excluding the noseweight of the attached caravan, does not weigh more than 1390kg. If its kerbweight is 1165kg, that leaves a margin of 225kg for payload in the car, including occupants.
Alternatively, if the car is fully laden to 1670kg, including the noseweight, then the axle load of the caravan must not exceed 810kg. Assuming 75kg noseweight the actual total weight of the caravan must not exceed 885kg, which is less than its unladen weight. Consequently, you can never tow the caravan if the car is fully laden, even if it is empty.
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Brilliant!
Thankyou for the advice everyone - you are all very helpful ;-).
Hopefully I'll never have to tow it with my car - as not going to put the strain on my car when the Landy is sitting there - but at least I know that (as long as I'm careful about how I load them and weights etc), I could tow it if needed.
Thanks again
Caz x
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I thought you were asking if your licence would allow you to tow with Dad's
