Mirror Extensions?
Hi, we have just changed from a small motorhome to an Esterel folding caravan. It was my understanding that I wouldn't need door mirror extensions when towing the trailer as I would be able to see over the top of it in the rear view mirror, and see its rear
corners in the door mirrors. I am now questioning this as some people seem to think I will need them, thoughts please.
Thanks
Comments
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Read the highway code for towing, it states that you must have a view of a certain distance behind your trailer, if you don,t you will be fined £30 for each mirror not fitted you must have 2 mirrors towing any caravan.The police can also ground you till
you purchase the mirrors or escort you to a compound, which will cost you, so beware0 -
greenapple182 already stated in the OP that he could see the rear corners of his trailer so he is legal.
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greenapple182 already stated in the OP that he could see the rear corners of his trailer so he is legal.
Not sure that is true. The post says he was told he would be able to see down the sides and over and not that he can. Basically he needs to check the width of his car against that of the caravan and if he actually has a decent view over the top. Not in
fact sure if the law allows for the view over it so I would not rely on that point.0 -
greenapple182 already stated in the OP that he could see the rear corners of his trailer so he is legal.
Not sure that is true. The post says he was told he would be able to see down the sides and over and not that he can. Basically he needs to check the width of his car against that of the caravan and if he actually has a decent view over the top. Not in
fact sure if the law allows for the view over it so I would not rely on that point.You might be right, the original post is a bit ambiguous, maybe the
greenapple182 can tell us if he has actually tested the outfit to see if the rear corners are visible.On the subject of the above diagram, i cannot find any reference in law to this or anything regarding tow vehicle mirors. If the diagram has just been produced for the Milenco website it has no legal standing.
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I watched the caravan finder tv the other night where the programme featured a planned police check and the diagram was shown on there and they were fining people £60 per mirror. another interest thing on the show was they had checked a transit van pulling
a caravan and as it was under reward it fell under the tachograph laws.0 -
Thanks all for your replies, I have decided to play safe and bought some towing mirrors, took it out for a first drive last night and all is good. Still need to practice reversing though! Having said that its so light it is probably easier to un hitch and push!
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greenapple182 already stated in the OP that he could see the rear corners of his trailer so he is legal.
Not sure that is true. The post says he was told he would be able to see down the sides and over and not that he can. Basically he needs to check the width of his car against that of the caravan and if he actually has a decent view over the top. Not in
fact sure if the law allows for the view over it so I would not rely on that point.You might be right, the original post is a bit ambiguous, maybe the
greenapple182 can tell us if he has actually tested the outfit to see if the rear corners are visible.On the subject of the above diagram, i cannot find any reference in law to this or anything regarding tow vehicle mirors. If the diagram has just been produced for the Milenco website it has no legal standing.
The law requires you to be able to see down both sides of a trailer and the Milenco diagram is a visual representation of that. I do not know the position with regard to seeing over a trailer as I have never been able to do that. You are required to have
two mirrors that comply with the rear vision requirements so I suppose you either need the extending mirrors or you do not and the view over the top is irrelevant.0 -
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The law requires you to be able to see down both sides of a trailer and the Milenco diagram is a visual representation of that. I do not know the position with regard to seeing over a trailer as I have never been able to do that. You are required to have
two mirrors that comply with the rear vision requirements so I suppose you either need the extending mirrors or you do not and the view over the top is irrelevant.I quite agree that is how it should be however as I said I cannot find this law (regulaton) regarding towing mirrors anywhere. If it is just someones personnel take on what the law should be then the Police would be fraudulently fining people.I have asked
the CC and Vosa for clarification but nothing as yet.0 -
The law states that you must be able to see down both sides of your trailer and behind it, it dosn't matter if you can see over the top.
That is direct from a traffic police sergent
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The law states that you must be able to see down both sides of your trailer and behind it, it dosn't matter if you can see over the top.
That is direct from a traffic police sergent
It is no good continually saying "the law states" if it is not backed up by legislation, I feel sure it is there somewhere but as yet no one has been able to provide me with the correct legislation regarding towing mirrors.
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The law states that you must be able to see down both sides of your trailer and behind it, it dosn't matter if you can see over the top.
That is direct from a traffic police sergent
It is no good continually saying "the law states" if it is not backed up by legislation, I feel sure it is there somewhere but as yet no one has been able to provide me with the correct legislation regarding towing mirrors.
It is in the Construction and Use regulations I believe but it is consistantly quoted by all reliable parties and the govenment. Look up the government web site at
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I used to occasionally tow a small trailer for a friend using my Land Rover. Even with three mirrors I could not even see the trailer!
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The legislation relating to mirrors is
here. Please don't base any of your decisions soley on the governments information website. This information website gave wrong information on the lengths of trailers, there was a recent discussion on this.The Caravan Club produced a
fact sheet on mirrors.0 -
The legislation relating to mirrors is
here. Please don't base any of your decisions soley on the governments information website. This information website gave wrong information on the lengths of trailers, there was a recent discussion on this.The Caravan Club produced a
fact sheet on mirrors.Where in the above legislation is there any specific reference to towing mirrors or anything that vaguely resembles the aforementioned diagram that is often quoted.
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The legislation relating to mirrors is here. Please don't base any of your decisions soley on the governments information website. This information website gave wrong information on the lengths of trailers, there was a recent discussion on this.
The Caravan Club produced a fact sheet on mirrors.
Where in the above legislation is there any specific reference to towing mirrors or anything that vaguely resembles the aforementioned diagram that is often quoted.
If you work your way through the regulations you will find that it makes reference to a variety of international regulations such as EC Directives and 74 pages of ECE Regulation 46. Regarding your comment about trailers and diagrams it is all there you read all the regulations and directives.
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On a motorway I can see something overhauling in the lane alongside, significantly further back than in the car mirrors. For that reason alone I would fit them whether legislation tells me too or not. Particularly useful when it's a coach, or white van man
doing warp 9.0 -
The legislation relating to mirrors is
here. Please don't base any of your decisions soley on the governments information website. This information website gave wrong information on the lengths of trailers, there was a recent discussion on this.The Caravan Club produced a
fact sheet on mirrors.Where in the above legislation is there any specific reference to towing mirrors or anything that vaguely resembles the aforementioned diagram that is often quoted.
If you work your way through the regulations you will find that it makes reference to a variety of international regulations such as EC Directives and 74 pages of
ECE Regulation 46. Regarding your comment about trailers and diagrams it is all there you read all the regulations and directives.Please point me to the relevant regulation number.
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It depends on when the vehicle was 'first used' and what type of vehicle it is as to what specific regulations apply. I wish life was straight forward but unfortunately with legislation in many cases it isn't. It sometimes, especially with technical legislation, is necessary to read all appropriate legislation rather than a single part of it. Why not contact the Caravan Club direct for legal advice?
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Vulcan, there is no legislation referring specifically only to towing mirrors. The existing legislation covering mirrors in general applies to all rear view mirrors, including towing mirrors. When towing, the standard mirrors more often than not, no longer comply with the field of view requirements as laid down in the Vehicle Construction and Use Regulations that dwlgll20 referred to in his reply and must therefore be augmented by towing mirrors in order to fulfil the said requirements.
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On a motorway I can see something overhauling in the lane alongside, significantly further back than in the car mirrors. For that reason alone I would fit them whether legislation tells me too or not. Particularly useful when it's a coach, or white van man
doing warp 9.You and I appear to be in a minority of 2. I use extension mirrors because I can see better with them fitted than without them.
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Thanks for that but how can someone be prosecuted if there is no specific legislation and therefore surely no offence to commit.
Vulcan, it would be under section 33 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as amended. To work out what mirrors you need under the regulations look at the chart at the bottom of the first link I include. Go to the first column and
identify which is your vehicle (date of first use etc). Go across to column 2 which tells you what mirrors are to be fitted. Then go to column 3 which will give you the requirements of those mirrors. If you don't comply with any of these then that's the offence.
Basically if the mirrors fitted to the vehicle by the manufacture don't meet the requirement for example because you are towing you then need mirrors which do comply. We call them towing mirrors the law calls them quite simply mirrors.0 -
Thanks for that but how can someone be prosecuted if there is no specific legislation and therefore surely no offence to commit.
Vulcan, it would be under section 33 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as amended. To work out what mirrors you need under the regulations look at the chart at the bottom of the first link I include. Go to the first column and
identify which is your vehicle (date of first use etc). Go across to column 2 which tells you what mirrors are to be fitted. Then go to column 3 which will give you the requirements of those mirrors. If you don't comply with any of these then that's the offence.
Basically if the mirrors fitted to the vehicle by the manufacture don't meet the requirement for example because you are towing you then need mirrors which do comply. We call them towing mirrors the law calls them quite simply mirrors.Having towed for over forty years always with extra mirrors I would not advocate anyone towing a van without extra mirrors no matter how wide their tow vehicle is. The point I am making is not regarding the construction of the mirrors,it is the fact that
it appears to be down to the opinion of a roadside official wether or not you can see behind you, backed up by a diagram that has no official backing as far as i can see.0 -
A mirror is a mirror. Why should one then have to distinguish a towing mirror from any other type of rear view mirror? It's a bit like some people asking about legislation applying specifically to caravans. Likewise there, a caravan is a trailer so everything that applies to a trailer applies to a caravan, too.
The diagram that you refer to is only a way of visualising the requirements as laid down in legislation. One will find the same dimensions shown on the diagram in the text of legislation. It's just that the text is a bit difficult to read and comprehend by the uninitiated so the diagram helps one understand what it's all about.
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....You and I appear to be in a minority of 2. I use extension mirrors because I can see better with them fitted than without them.
Along with me & Freelander Dave
.... though I did my usual trick today of setting off without them when taking the caravan for
a minor repair (I carried on without
)0 -
Perhaps someone could explain what happens when the view required by "the law" is impossible too obtain for instance when the car and caravan are turning right and the n/s mirror is basically rendered useless and ofcourse on a left turn the same happens
to the o/s mirror ?peter.
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