After the wheel comes off - what then?
I know this is an old nugget about caravan wheels coming off - but what happens afterwards? Our brand new Hymer Nova 580GL lost a wheel on it's first trip out. We had owned it for less than a month and it did 100 miles when the nearside wheel fell off.
Luckily we had just turned off the A30 onto a B road so we were going quite slowly. The van suffered extensive damage and we are now in discussions with our insurers about what happens next. The runaway wheel incident was back in October, and we have been
through the process of loss assessor and estimate from dealer for the repair work. Based on that repair estimate the insurers want to repair it but we don't agree with them and think it should be written off because as we have pointed out there are things
not mentioned in the repair estimate we know will need sorting, like the spare wheel carrier and spare wheel that were buried in the tarmac and what if the chassis turns out to be twisted, what happens then? The repair estimate also states in bold "subject
to undisclosed damage" so we have asked the insurers repeatedly now - what happens if the price escalates, is there a set limit? No answer is forthcoming. The floor - which is a double floor and all in one piece is going to be repaired and we don't
think that is satisfactory but the insurance company are not interested, they have made their decision and do not want to consider anything else. The insurance company by the way are Devitts - through the Caravan Club's 5C's insurance. So is there anyone
out there who has been through this same situation and if so what was your outcome? Any help, advice etc gratefully received. We are going to ask for a second opinion but think the outcome will be the same.
Comments
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I would suggest you go and see someone at the CAB who will be able to give you the right advice on how to take this matter further. I wonder if there is any redress back to the dealer or manufacturer if there was a possibility of wheel nuts being too loose.
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The insurer has opted to pay for repairs so they obviously feel this is cheaper for them than writing a brand new caravan off. If there is any "undisclosed damage" that makes the repair bill a lot higher, then they may reconsider in which case they will
contact you. As for any potential case against the dealer or manufacturer, I do not think there will be a case to answer as it is the owners responsibility to ensure the caravan is in a roadworthy condition before towing it anywhere.0 -
I would take it anyway and check for myself , not on the dealres forecourt but maybe a layby or nearby suitable parking area....For peace of mind.....
sg2
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We had a nearside wheel come off a brand new van less than 40miles from the dealer,who when we contacted them from the hard shoulder of the M1,were quite adament that it was down to the manufacterer as that did not come under the PDI?,and we would have to get recovered from the motorway,,when asked how it was down to the manufacturer, things all changed when we pointed out it was they who had to take the wheels off to fit the tyron bands,we had been sorted out and given overnight accomodation ,at their expence, and the caravan replaced and with free servicing for two years,but we only kept van for two years as it was a problem from the start
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My dealer insists that you watch the wheels being torqued after delivery and every service after that, However i still recheck after 25-30 miles and then thats it until next service, as there should be no way they can then come loose having been tightened
correctly. Did you recheck the wheels after taking delivery and doing the first 50 mls? as that is usually the recommendation.Having said all that if the van is that new then i would have thought a replacement would have been more inline than a repair. Especially if you can prove the dealer had not done thier job.
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We had a nearside wheel come off a brand new van less than 40miles from the dealer,who when we contacted them from the hard shoulder of the M1,were quite adament that
it was down to the manufacterer as that did not come under the PDI?Pretty irrelevant as they supplied the faulty goods to you ..... not the dealer in any case.
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Im so sorry to hear of this incident.It must be very distressing. I always carry a Torque Wrench with me now and I have bought a set of the 'loose collar' type wheel bolts that they say applies more pressure to keep the wheel on. I thought it only applied
to Bailey caravans but here we are with a Hymer doing the same thing. I always check the wheels before any journey but so far I haven't found a loose bolt. I do hope you get it sorted and that the insurance step up to the mark.0 -
Like Merve I carry a torque wrench in the car boot and check the torque every so often. I have never had a problem with any wheel bolts changing torque. I'm really surprised to hear that the OP had this problem with a Hymer, it has often happened with Bailey caravans, but Hymers are reputed to be of a much better build quality.
Hope the OP gets everything sorted to his complete satisfaction.
Cheers.................K
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With my Hymer purchased in 2008 from the UK's then only official importer I had on delivery to sign a document stating that I understood it was a requirement and my responsibility to retorque the road wheel bolts at between 20 to 30 miles, from handover.
Is that still the case, and was it done?
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.... to sign a document stating that I understood it was a requirement and my responsibility to retorque the road wheel bolts at between 20 to 30 miles, from handover.
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You often have to sign for the same thing at high street tyre bays when you've had a wheel put back on your car.
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Perhaps this is one area the club might take an interest in, as this seems to have more to it than meets the eye. The frequency of caravan wheels coming off is high i.e. high relatively to that of other vehicles due to hub and the securing design. Its all
very well dealers adding the 25` re-check torque clause but even that has issues, owners have to actually own a quality torque wrench, be versed in its correct use, and have it calibrated on a yearly basis (at least to be absolutely correct). Assuming a wheel
is correctly torqued in the first place if it loosens after the 25` the owner re-torques it what is to stop it loosening again, in other words the design should be fail safe. Perhaps caravan manufacturers should consider their obligation to the safety of road
users in general.0 -
I'm with easy T on this one.
This was a Brand New Van and had done a very low mileage in total. Effectively it was on its first outing!
As a customer you have a right to expect that such a van on its first outing will be fit for purpose. Given that fact I believe any arbiter would find in your favour. Clearly both the manufacturer and the selling dealer with whom your contract lies, share
the responsibility here. The PDI was clearly not effective.The repairer also has a duty here, to you and to the Insurance company. If he, the repairer eccepts the job,- then he is also undertaking to restore the caravan to its before incident condition. i.e. in this case new condition.
Put all of this in writing to all parties, and be prepared to play Hard Ball on this one. You have the right on your side!
Involve the caravaning press!
TF
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..., given the frquency of such events why ...
But how frequently do wheels come actually come off caravans? I've never seen it happen nor had it happen to me and I just tighten wheel nut/bolts up by hand. Perhaps training on the use of a torque wrench should be given to all who use them.
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Given the relatively small number of members on here the occurence does seem too frequent.
This was a new caravan, therefore new paint on hubs & wheels. Various times I've been told to check for tightness so many miles after wheels have been refitted & especially after I've had wheels refurbished. Apart from Vivien (of SOLO fame) who seemed to
be a dab hand at loosing wheels ... despite use of a torque wrench ... I can't really think of any more
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I tow mine 40 miles back from service and check before next usage
I do the same, but have only ever noticed very minimal movement, both on our current Bailey and on our previous Swift. This could easily be explained by slight differences in torque renches. Wheels actually coming off suggests to me the bolts were never
actually tightened. As in a few GP incidents. If procedures are slack it would be all to easy to put the bolts on loosely and then forget to torque.0 -
I wonder if any thought has been given to fitting left hand threaded wheel studs and nuts to nearside caravan hubs.
Any slackness would then be tightened by wheel rotation rather than loosened.
It works for HGV trucks and trailers.
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Whilst the PDI could have been substandard it is far from correct to place the blame exclusively there.
These caravan wheel losses can occur with the most diligent of PDIs; the wheel bolt tightness of our caravans need rechecking after a few miles, as the tension can be lost, not the bolt backing off, but due to settlement of the mating surfaces. This is vital with a new caravan and very good practice following any service. Hymer even have that requirement stated in the documentation.
Caravan wheels are relative to car wheels highly loaded for the moderate scantlings of the bolting used; the bolt dia, the stretched length of the bolt, the number used and bolting PCD. Any settlement, and there is plenty of potential for that has to be countered by stored energy in the strain inducded in the bolt; unfortunately the bolts are not way over specified so offering lots of reserve for those unwilling/ unaware of. to follow the makers instructions.
The science is well understood; the issue can be designed out but they are specified just fit for purpose if the instructions are followed. Arguably they should be designed with greater reserves for those that don't follow the instructions, but IMO it is far from surefire in litigation anyone will prove the design is inadequate.
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Whilst the PDI could have been substandard it is far from correct to place the blame exclusively there.
These caravan wheel losses can occur with the most diligent of PDIs; the wheel bolt tightness of our caravans need rechecking after a few miles, as the tension can be lost, not the bolt backing off, but due to settlement of the mating surfaces. This is vital with a new caravan and very good practice following any service. Hymer even have that requirement stated in the documentation.
Caravan wheels are relative to car wheels highly loaded for the moderate scantlings of the bolting used; the bolt dia, the stretched length of the bolt, the number used and bolting PCD. Any settlement, and there is plenty of potential for that has to be countered by stored energy in the strain inducded in the bolt; unfortunately the bolts are not way over specified so offering lots of reserve for those unwilling/ unaware of. to follow the makers instructions.
The science is well understood; the issue can be designed out but they are specified just fit for purpose if the instructions are followed. Arguably they should be designed with greater reserves for those that don't follow the instructions, but IMO it is far from surefire in litigation anyone will prove the design is inadequate.
Agree with what you say but JVB66 had their wheel come off in less than 40 miles. I would suggest that is more likely due to the nuts not being torqued at all. We follow advice following a service and check them after about 25 miles, when we get to the site we always take it to. As I said above, I have only ever registered very slight movement. I would doubt even another 25 miles would result in the loss of a wheel.
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Ocsid. i genuinely bow to your extensive technical knowledge on this subject and do not dispute what you say.
However in any matter such as this, the manufacturer must also take into consideration the likely knowledge and experience of his customer. In this case I very much doubt that Mr Joe Public will have the knowledge & experience such as yours, and will merly
revel in the fact that have just spent plus or minus £20,000 on their new van and will expect it to work without futher attention until the first service is due.The manufacturer and dealer have a responsibility for the safety of their customers, and if the vulnerability and frailty of the safety/reliability of their goods is as you suggest then much more should be made of that on delivery to the customer. It certainly
never has been to me. either o delivery or when collecting after service!TF
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The manufacturer and dealer have a responsibility for the safety of their customers, and if the vulnerability and frailty of the safety/reliability of their goods is as you suggest then much more should be made of that on delivery
to the customer. It certainly never has been to me. either o delivery or when collecting after service!TF
I would tend to question if I wanted to continue getting it serviced there TF. On each and every occasion we have picked up a new van, or it has anything done which involved the wheels being removed, they have always stressed the importance of checking the
bolts after 25 to 30 miles. When we picked up our first van it was positively drummed into us how important it was.0 -
Trouble is in the real world. Do they check the following
1 Do you have a torque wrench?
2 Is it calibrated?
3 Do you know how to use it?
Without the above, the dealer asking to have the wheels checked after 30 miles, is a bit of a backside covering exercise.
Confession time: The van was recently serviced, if asked the questions above I could truthfully answer yes to questions 1 and 3. Problem is after 250 miles I haven't got round to checking the torque yet
A simple suggestion not fool proof but it is easy enough to mark your wheel studs with a felt tip pen at the 12 o'clock position to give a visual indication of movement.
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Trouble is in the real world. Do they check the following
1 Do you have a torque wrench?
2 Is it calibrated?
3 Do you know how to use it?
Without the above, the dealer asking to have the wheels checked after 30 miles, is a bit of a backside covering exercise.
Confession time: The van was recently serviced, if asked the questions above I could truthfully answer yes to questions 1 and 3. Problem is after 250 miles I haven't got round to checking the torque yet
A simple suggestion not fool proof but it is easy enough to mark your wheel studs with a felt tip pen at the 12 o'clock position to give a visual indication of movement.
Sadly Boff it is very far from fool proof as the bolts only start to rotate long after they have lost the required level of tension.That happens when the wheel is floating around held on but not secure. So the marks can look fine but the wheel is already
coming loose.In the ideal world you need a torque wrench in good state of calibration and the knowledge to use it, but just trying to apply a sensible level of torque is all that is needed to keep safe at that 20 > 30 mile check. It will be self evident to all but the
practically challenged if any are critically loose. With the telescopic wrenches typically supplied its is a healthy pull, not requiring an extension tube or busting a blood vessel. Few cars come with torque wrenches for on road wheel changing, in the short
term having the precisely right torque within 20 odd % is not critical till you can reach somewhere to get it done right. I have a torque wrench but don't carry it on every vehicle journey.Knowing how vunerable alloy caravan wheels are to bolt issues I do keep a check on these. I have like others detected a slight settlement on both my new vans with alloys, but in service never in now 14 years with them on vans had any further settlement in
use or post me changing a wheel.0 -
For me the only wheels that fall off are those that were never put on proper in the first place.We can come up with all manner of technical jargon but lets be realistic here takeing wheels off and putting them back on is not rocket science to anyone who
has worked on the tools.In cases like this whoever had the wheels off last is at fault.Our cars do far more miles than our caravans and do we check our wheel nuts before we go anywhere ? ofcourse we dont so lets keep it realistic.v9
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