No caravan indicator warning sound with on caravan
I have just towed my new Swift Challenger from the dealer and note that there is no indicator warning sound in my car. The dealer informs me that it will not sound because the new van has LED indicator lights, which are not powerful enough to control
the bleeper.
Is this unlawful and will I need to modify my wiring on my Seat Leon FR+ '62 reg.?
The dealer also mentioned that on some cars, an additional box has to be fitted to the car as the caravan could interfere with the ABS system. Does anybody have any advice on the above please?
Comments
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One pointer is the box referred to is made by Sargant the firm that makes the control panel. The LED lights on the caravan may not in themselves produce enough resistance to enable your car to undertake all the checks which should include an indicator light
failure on the caravan. I suggest you google Swift and LED Lights I`ve seen quite a few variations on the theme to do with LED Lights on caravans.0 -
One pointer is the box referred to is made by Sargant the firm that makes the control panel. The LED lights on the caravan may not in themselves produce enough resistance to enable your car to undertake all the checks which should include an indicator light
failure on the caravan. I suggest you google Swift and LED Lights I`ve seen quite a few variations on the theme to do with LED Lights on caravans.Write your comments here...many thanks Tigi
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I think the led tail lights might be a red herring.
Your towcar doens't require a buzzer or separate warning light to stay legal, it just needs to inform you that you have a failed indicator. It will probably do this by flashing your indicators rapidly like it would if the caravan was not attached. Try another
trailer/trailer board with normal bulbs & see what happens and then remove an indicator bulb & see what happens.0 -
Whilst you do not have an audible indicator do you have a visual one? We tow with an Audi and we have visual only and I believe that you need either audible OR visual. Also did you specify that the car would be used for towing and have a factory fitted bar
and electrics or have it fitted later as this may affect things as well. I know that when I got my car I made it clear that I would be towing and,after a lot of hassle,Audi agreed to supply and fit a supplementary wiring kit as VW/Audi group bar electrics
will not power your fridge or van battery.0 -
Whilst you do not have an audible indicator do you have a visual one? We tow with an Audi and we have visual only and I believe that you need either audible OR visual. Also did you specify that the car would be used for towing and have a factory fitted bar
and electrics or have it fitted later as this may affect things as well. I know that when I got my car I made it clear that I would be towing and,after a lot of hassle,Audi agreed to supply and fit a supplementary wiring kit as VW/Audi group bar electrics
will not power your fridge or van battery.Write your comments here... Prior to purchase, I was asked by two different sales men what car would I be towing with and neither made me aware of the LED indicator problem. Their service engineer was fully aware of this issue and therefor, I would assume
the sales reps. were too.This problem is going to escalate when the new Swift vans are released in the Spring as I purchased the show room van and I personally think Swift should be installing these indicator sensor boxes as standard to ensure every new owner has indication of indicator
failure. After all, Swift have created this problem which is both illegal when towing and dangerous.I will be asking my dealer at Flint Caravan Sales as to why they let me tow away this van knowing full well that is has an indicator issue. I shall also be contacting Swift as I do not think that I should be footing a £100+ bill to have this device fitted
as an after sales modification.Finally, how do I get this box fitted if the van is on my drive and would be both illegal and dangerous for me to return it to the dealer or other?
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What's the problem? Do your caravan indicators work? You have led 'bulbs' fitted in the caravan and though there is a faint possibilty of failing, they are likely to last the life of the caravan hence a bulb failure in your car will be waiting a very long
time to tell you of a fault. If the leds didn't draw enough current for the car to see them ...... then they wouldn't work and the car would think a bulb had blown & flash your remaining indicator rapidliy. AFAIK, the box of electrickery adds extra load so
that the car can see the led indicators0 -
What's the problem? Do your caravan indicators work? You have led 'bulbs' fitted in the caravan and though there is a faint possibilty of failing, they are likely to last the life of the caravan hence a bulb failure in your car will be waiting a very long
time to tell you of a fault. If the leds didn't draw enough current for the car to see them ...... then they wouldn't work and the car would think a bulb had blown & flash your remaining indicator rapidliy. AFAIK, the box of electrickery adds extra load so
that the car can see the led indicatorsWrite your comments here...I fully hear what you are saying, but I for one, do not tow any vehicle on the assumption that the indicator, bulb or LED will last a lifetime.
I have been towing vehicles large and small for over 48 years and have learnt and relied on the legally required audio warning which can save lives.
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.... and relied on the legally required audio warning which can save lives.
The legal requirement is to be provided with a means of knowing that the indicator has failed. It requires neither an audible nor visual indication ..... just a means of knowing ie like my car, your car will likely rapidly flash what's left.
Have you tried to simulate a failed lamp/led yet?
Not sure what 48yrs experience towing has got to do with anything .... least of all with regard to leds that have only been around for a few years
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I don't have fancy LED lights and my car gives an audible sound when indicating whilst towing. I find it a welcome reminder that I have to allow for the van when pulling out/turning.
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..... I find it a welcome reminder that I have to allow for the van when pulling out/turning.
I find the same with the big white thing that fills my rear view mirror
Write your comments here...Spot on Molly, mirror,signal manoeuvre,at all times.There could be a cyclist beside you.
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....., if a bulb failes then the car will make a noise to let you know that a bulb has gone ???
No. Some installers fit a buzzer & or extra warning light tied into the trailer indicators because it's easier for them. The law just says you need to know when an indicator fails, but the set up on mine & ALANkW's car suffices. Depending on how clever the car is in the first place ie does it have its own light check system, then sometimes the trailer is also monitored likewise.
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Molly is correct regarding you either need an audible or visual warning of the failure of a trailer light, modern cars use the cars Canbas or similar to provide a visual warning of a bulb failure. However a trailer fitted with LED`s can be a problem to some
makes as the current draw is not enough to operate the system. e.g. if you google "Mercedes trailer LED`s" you will begin to get a more detailed picture. Personally I would at least check your cars compatability with a caravan fitted with LED Tail Lights so
as to arrange any modification to the system that is required.0 -
..... However a trailer fitted with LED`s can be a problem to some makes as the current draw is not enough to operate the system. .....
We're still waiting for Awningman to confirm one way or t'other whether the caravan led indicators are working. The problem with led's is that they generally don't work or rapidly flash the whole outfit cos the car thinks the caravan's indicators have failed.
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What's the problem? Do your caravan indicators work? You have led 'bulbs' fitted in the caravan and though there is a faint possibilty of failing, they are likely to last the life of the caravan hence a bulb failure in your car will be waiting a very long
time to tell you of a fault. If the leds didn't draw enough current for the car to see them ...... then they wouldn't work and the car would think a bulb had blown & flash your remaining indicator rapidliy. AFAIK, the box of electrickery adds extra load so
that the car can see the led indicatorsWrite your comments here...I fully hear what you are saying, but I for one, do not tow any vehicle on the assumption that the indicator, bulb or LED will last a lifetime.
I have been towing vehicles large and small for over 48 years and have learnt and relied on the legally required audio warning which can save lives.
..Bailey had that very problem and were retro fitting "boxes" but i understand they have gone back to bulbs
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ford amarican thats news to me always thought ford was british, well mi other cars a skoda, not got a clue were that came from all i know is i picked it up in leeds
Your Skoda wasn't built in Leeds though
(Clue is it's part of VAG 
)0 -
Whilst you do not have an audible indicator do you have a visual one? We tow with an Audi and we have visual only and I believe that you need either audible OR visual. Also did you specify that the car would be used for towing and have a factory fitted bar
and electrics or have it fitted later as this may affect things as well. I know that when I got my car I made it clear that I would be towing and,after a lot of hassle,Audi agreed to supply and fit a supplementary wiring kit as VW/Audi group bar electrics
will not power your fridge or van battery.Write your comments here... Prior to purchase, I was asked by two different sales men what car would I be towing with and neither made me aware of the LED indicator problem. Their service engineer was fully aware of this issue and therefor, I would assume
the sales reps. were too.This problem is going to escalate when the new Swift vans are released in the Spring as I purchased the show room van and I personally think Swift should be installing these indicator sensor boxes as standard to ensure every new owner has indication of indicator
failure. After all, Swift have created this problem which is both illegal when towing and dangerous.I will be asking my dealer at Flint Caravan Sales as to why they let me tow away this van knowing full well that is has an indicator issue. I shall also be contacting Swift as I do not think that I should be footing a £100+ bill to have this device fitted
as an after sales modification.Finally, how do I get this box fitted if the van is on my drive and would be both illegal and dangerous for me to return it to the dealer or other?
As you appear to be a new Swift owner, I suggest you join us on Swift Talk where this is discussed and action can be suggested.
One thread running which has links to Sargent who produce specific boxes to fix this issue is:
http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/swift/forum/caravan-technical/177760/led-lights
On another thread (can't remember) it is fully explained that it is the "fault" of the car manufacturers introducing their individual CANBUS systems which requires a bespoke solution to ensure everything trailer wise works and is legal.
Going back to bulbs (as Bailey seem to have done?) is a bit of a cop out but will obviously prevent issues of this nature until/if there is ever a consistent way to address trailer LED lights within the CANBUS system.
I do feel that the dealer has let you down somewhat in that this could have been arranged and sorted during your purchase.
You do mention your car model and, as suggested testing with a standard bulb trailer board would check the connections are correct (is your fridge and ATC, if fitted working correctly?)
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Whilst you do not have an audible indicator do you have a visual one? We tow with an Audi and we have visual only and I believe that you need either audible OR visual. Also did you specify that the car would be used for towing and have a factory fitted bar
and electrics or have it fitted later as this may affect things as well. I know that when I got my car I made it clear that I would be towing and,after a lot of hassle,Audi agreed to supply and fit a supplementary wiring kit as VW/Audi group bar electrics
will not power your fridge or van battery.Write your comments here... Prior to purchase, I was asked by two different sales men what car would I be towing with and neither made me aware of the LED indicator problem. Their service engineer was fully aware of this issue and therefor, I would assume
the sales reps. were too.This problem is going to escalate when the new Swift vans are released in the Spring as I purchased the show room van and I personally think Swift should be installing these indicator sensor boxes as standard to ensure every new owner has indication of indicator
failure. After all, Swift have created this problem which is both illegal when towing and dangerous.I will be asking my dealer at Flint Caravan Sales as to why they let me tow away this van knowing full well that is has an indicator issue. I shall also be contacting Swift as I do not think that I should be footing a £100+ bill to have this device fitted
as an after sales modification.Finally, how do I get this box fitted if the van is on my drive and would be both illegal and dangerous for me to return it to the dealer or other?
As you appear to be a new Swift owner, I suggest you join us on Swift Talk where this is discussed and action can be suggested.
One thread running which has links to Sargent who produce specific boxes to fix this issue is:
http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/swift/forum/caravan-technical/177760/led-lights
On another thread (can't remember) it is fully explained that it is the "fault" of the car manufacturers introducing their individual CANBUS systems which requires a bespoke solution to ensure everything trailer wise works and is legal.
Going back to bulbs (as Bailey seem to have done?) is a bit of a cop out but will obviously prevent issues of this nature until/if there is ever a consistent way to address trailer LED lights within the CANBUS system.
I do feel that the dealer has let you down somewhat in that this could have been arranged and sorted during your purchase.
You do mention your car model and, as suggested testing with a standard bulb trailer board would check the connections are correct (is your fridge and ATC, if fitted working correctly?)
Write your comments here...Thank you DougS for a very informative reply.
I have joined the Swift Talk yesterday and also filled in an enquiry form on the Sargent website.
Further more, I have written to Swift on what is going to be an ongoing problem when they deliver already purchased Swift caravans in the spring.
As far as the dealer, they have let me down in more ways than I can mention on here. One would think by taking their offer of the showroom model which was only unlocked to view with a sales rep present for one month only, that I was purchasing a well checked
and near perfect van...wrong!
Attention to detail doesn't enter the Swift or dealer handover checklists.
You are the second one to state about the fridge and ATC so I will be taking this up with the dealer also.
Thanks again. Dave (awninghandyman.co.uk)
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@Awningman .... do your indicators work? AFAIK the Sargent box of electrickery is intended for use on cars where the led trailer indicators don't draw enough current for the car to see them resulting in them not working at all.
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@Awningman .... do your indicators work? AFAIK the Sargent box of electrickery is intended for use on cars where the led trailer indicators don't draw enough current for the car to see them resulting in them not working at all.
Write your comments here...All car and caravan lights working, but quoting
cyberyacht "my car gives an audible sound when indicating whilst towing. I find it a welcome reminder that I have to allow for the van when pulling out/turning." hence my comment earlier about towing for over 48 years, it is something that I rely on.0 -
@Awningman .... do your indicators work? AFAIK the Sargent box of electrickery is intended for use on cars where the led trailer indicators don't draw enough current for the car to see them resulting in them not working at all.
Write your comments here...All car and caravan lights working, but quoting
cyberyacht "my car gives an audible sound when indicating whilst towing. I find it a welcome reminder that I have to allow for the van when pulling out/turning." hence my comment earlier about towing for over 48 years, it is something that I rely on.So all is working fine & legally as it should and you don't .... as I said .... need the box of elecctrickery fitting.
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@Awningman .... do your indicators work? AFAIK the Sargent box of electrickery is intended for use on cars where the led trailer indicators don't draw enough current for the car to see them resulting in them not working at all.
Write your comments here...All car and caravan lights working, but quoting cyberyacht "my car gives an audible sound when indicating whilst towing. I find it a welcome reminder that I have to allow for the van when pulling out/turning." hence my comment earlier about towing for over 48 years, it is something that I rely on.
So all is working fine & legally as it should and you don't .... as I said .... need the box of elecctrickery fitting.
Agree with MM, I didn't quite understand the exact issue and as long as the car is behaving correctly i.e. probably rear car foglamps and parking sensors disabled and all lights working correctly etc. then you are legal and probably don't need the Sargent box or, technically, any further work.
The car indicators should flash twice as fast or a message displayed if ANY monitored bulb or indicator fails (including LED trailer if I understand the concept correctly) and this should be able to be checked by pulling selected fuses on the caravan road lights fuse box which I think all Swifts still have (check your handbook) Doing this would confirm that you have bulb failure indication and the normal checking of all lights before the start of your trip means you know they are working at that point.
If it's just the extra clicking when a trailer is connected that you want then a towbar fitter may be able to add a buzzer but this would be outside any manufacturer or required trailer hardware and has nothing to do with Swift either becasue, as long as there is some indication of bulb failure, the system is working correctly and legally (as I understand it) Again, suggest checking that you have the required connections made to operate your fridge and any Al-Ko ATC as this may not be done, depending on who fitted the towbar and what was asked for.
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Thank you all for all your comments, even if they were different. That is what this site is for, variations and detailed information to boot. I shall be checking my 13 pin socket for constant live 12v on pin 9, removing fuse from caravan
(indicator) to check car monitoring and if the fridge works on car 12v system. The ATC is very important, as I believe this could interfere with my car ABS system.If anyone is about to or have already purchased a Swift or similar caravan and yet to collect it,
ensure that your dealer checks all the above with your car attached and running and not just check van rear road signals like my dealer did.0 -
Thank you all for all your comments, even if they were different. That is what this site is for, variations and detailed information to boot. I shall be checking my 13 pin socket for constant live 12v on pin 9, removing fuse from caravan
(indicator) to check car monitoring and if the fridge works on car 12v system. The ATC is very important, as I believe this could interfere with my car ABS system.If anyone is about to or have already purchased a Swift or similar caravan and yet to collect it,
ensure that your dealer checks all the above with your car attached and running and not just check van rear road signals like my dealer did.As long as you have a solid 12V supply for fridge & ATC (I think it needs a 20A supply) and the ATC goes through its self test leaving a green light (check the instructions if anything else observed) then it's fine. The car ABS/stability control etc is separate
(although there may be a trailer control element to the car's software?)0
