Is down plating a possibility?

ashneedham

hi all, 

I am looking at joining the many in the hobby of caravaning but due to only having a B driving licence I am curious at the possibility of down plating either my car or the caravan to give me more options.

let me explain a little about my situation. I am looking to buy my first tourer within the next year to begin my adventure in caravan holidays. There would be myself, my wife and my baby daughter so we were looking at a 4 birth.

I have recently changed my car to a Toyota RAV4. It has a GVW of 2190kg meaning (as far as I understand) on my current licence I could tow a caravan up to 1310kg MTPLM. Looking at that weight limit I have noticed that there are not a great deal of options
for a 4 birth.

I know many people would suggest taking the B+E test but at a cost of around £700 for lessons + test, it's something I want to try and avoid. Especially as I would like my wife to be able to tow too so that would effectively cost us £1400.

added to that the cars curb weight is 1700kg so the max ideal weight to stay with in the 85% ratio would be 1450kg. So my thinking is that going for B+E is only going to allow me about another 140kg on the MTPLM of a caravan. 

I have seen many caravans between 1310-1350kg MTPLM and so I wondered if it's possible to get either the caravan or the car down plated to make them within my 3500kg combined outfit limit?

if anyone has any knowledge or experience of this it would be appreciated. Especially who I would need to contact and how much it is likely to cost. 

Thanks for your time 

Ash

 

KjellNN

You would do it through a dealer, who would go to the manufacturer.

However, many caravan payloads are already very low, so you would need to consider that too.

Which vans are you considering?  New or old?  Older are generally lighter.  Lunar are often lightweight, and the more basic the van the lighter it will be.

We up plated, the cost was £50 some 8 years back.

ashneedham

You would do it through a dealer, who would go to the manufacturer.

However, many caravan payloads are already very low, so you would need to consider that too.

Which vans are you considering?  New or old?  Older are generally lighter.  Lunar are often lightweight, and the more basic the van the lighter it will be.

We up plated, the cost was £50 some 8 years back.

We will definitely be purchasing second hand but not sure if we will be going newer or older. A couple of the newer models (relatively) we have looked at are Linar Quasar 494 and the Bailey Orion 440/4.

A lot of the lighter older models tend to be 14+ years old and we are a little concerned about potential problems (as we are inexperienced with the buying process).

We want to get at least 5 years out of the car and what ever caravan we go for. After that point we may change the car and potentially I would be better positionsd to go for the B+E meaning we could choose from a wider ranger of vans.

dennisps

We have a 2009 Bailey Ranger GT60 540/6, which has a MTPLM of 1350KG, but it is a big van (six berth)... It is still going strong, so something that age might suit. Bailey have a number of other vans in that range which would be the correct weight.... see http://www.dycecaravans.co.uk/downloads/bailey-Caravans-2009.pdf

KellyHenderson

You would do it through a dealer, who would go to the manufacturer.

However, many caravan payloads are already very low, so you would need to consider that too.

Which vans are you considering?  New or old?  Older are generally lighter.  Lunar are often lightweight, and the more basic the van the lighter it will be.

We up plated, the cost was £50 some 8 years back.

Totally agree, you could be eating into an already low payload allowance, making it impractical to use.

ashneedham

We have a 2009 Bailey Ranger GT60 540/6, which has a MTPLM of 1350KG, but it is a big van (six berth)... It is still going strong, so something that age might suit. Bailey have a number of other vans in that range which would be the correct weight.... see http://www.dycecaravans.co.uk/downloads/bailey-Caravans-2009.pdf

I have looked at those, 6 birth would give us room to expand ;-) but 1350kg is over my combined max of 3500kg for 40kg. 

dennisps

We have a 2009 Bailey Ranger GT60 540/6, which has a MTPLM of 1350KG, but it is a big van (six berth)... It is still going strong, so something that age might suit. Bailey have a number of other vans in that range which would be the correct weight.... see http://www.dycecaravans.co.uk/downloads/bailey-Caravans-2009.pdf

I have looked at those, 6 birth would give us room to expand ;-) but 1350kg is over my combined max of 3500kg for 40kg. 

The non-GT60 variant comes in at 1306KG :-)

ashneedham

We have a 2009 Bailey Ranger GT60 540/6, which has a MTPLM of 1350KG, but it is a big van (six berth)... It is still going strong, so something that age might suit. Bailey have a number of other vans in that range which would be the correct weight.... see http://www.dycecaravans.co.uk/downloads/bailey-Caravans-2009.pdf

I have looked at those, 6 birth would give us room to expand ;-) but 1350kg is over my combined max of 3500kg for 40kg. 

The non-GT60 variant comes in at 1306KG :-)

cool i will take a look at that model.

cyberyacht

I've got a 2007 Abbey Vogue 470 which is plated to 1350Kg. but that is uprated from the original 1300Kg. You may find that would suit. The payload is reasonably generous by caravan standards although the two of us manage to use up all of ours somehow.

ashneedham

I've got a 2007 Abbey Vogue 470 which is plated to 1350Kg. but that is uprated from the original 1300Kg. You may find that would suit. The payload is reasonably generous by caravan standards although the two of us manage to use up all of ours somehow.

thanks I will take a look at that too. It seems there is a bigger choice than I thought. I suppose part of the problem is most of the listing sites (e.g auto trader) don't necessarily specify the MTPLM

abinitio1980

Like OP, my partner and I are both in a similar situation - both Post-97 licence and want to share towing without both having to do B+E test (at this stage)… Our MTPLM is therefore 1305kg

If it helps, our shortlist came down to this (including dealer specials where I found the alternative names):

Swift Group

Alpine 4 [Ace Envoy, Archway Sport Hartwell, Corniche 16/4, Classic Corvette, Kudos 470]

Sprite Musketeer TD

Explorer Group

Elddis Xplore [Breeze, Magnum, Sanremo] 504 (-2016, MPTLM 1300kg)

Bailey Group

Bailey Orion 430-4 / 440-4

Bailey Pursuit 430

Bailey Pegasus Modena

Lunar Group

Lunar Cosmos 534 2014 (1305kg MPTLM)

 

Ace Jubilee Envoy (pre 2008, MPTLM 1300kg)

Abbey Vogue 2 470 (pre 2008, MPTLM 1300kg)

Abbey Aventura 317 (2005)

Swift Charisma 535 (pre 2008, MPTLM 1300kg)

Sterling Europa 470 (pre 2008, MPTLM 1300kg)

 

We are focuses on a 4-berth with a fixed double bed, currently the newer Baileys are winning for us (full end washrooms)

As to downplating, I have enquired on 3 used that are very close to limit, only 1 dealer was willing to entertain the enquiry and took it up with eldiss… the answer came back that it can only be done at first registration (I.e when the van is new)

I hope this info useful

abinitio1980

I've got a 2007 Abbey Vogue 470 which is plated to 1350Kg. but that is uprated from the original 1300Kg. You may find that would suit. The payload is reasonably generous by caravan standards although the two of us manage to use up all of ours somehow.

thanks I will take a look at that too. It seems there is a bigger choice than I thought. I suppose part of the problem is most of the listing sites (e.g auto trader) don't necessarily specify the MTPLM

I found a similar problem  - and the only site that appears to allow search by MTPLM, appears broken (if you try filtering by anything more than MTPLM)

 

However, I have found you can manipulate the URLs on both the Caravan Finder and Practical Caravan search to find those within your limit (best to set your other search criteria first though and then edit the URL as changing it can confuse subsequent filtering!)

MattyMayo

For what it's worth, I did the B+E in one morning for about £400 and as far as I know this allows my wife to do some of the towing as well, as long as I'm the passenger (under a provisional learner entitlement).

I've never properly looked into it so not sure if you need to put 'L' plates on etc., so maybe check legalities before potentially invalidating your insurance

It would open up the whole market (within reason) to you and if a heavier caravan cost £400-700 less than a lighter one it pays for the B+E.

Wildwood

I doubt down plating is possible but given the lightweight caravans tend to have low payloads and you want a four berth which needs a decent loading allowance. I have to say settle for a lightweight caravan and when the car is replaced look carefully at
weights and you will get more lattitude on the caravan weight.

abinitio1980

For what it's worth, I did the B+E in one morning for about £400 and as far as I know this allows my wife to do some of the towing as well, as long as I'm the passenger (under a provisional learner entitlement).

I've never properly looked into it so not sure if you need to put 'L' plates on etc., so maybe check legalities before potentially invalidating your insurance

It would open up the whole market (within reason) to you and if a heavier caravan cost £400-700 less than a lighter one it pays for the B+E.

I'm 90% sure that you need 3 years experience (having passed B+E) to supervise someone driving B+E weights using L plates. 

ashneedham

For what it's worth, I did the B+E in one morning for about £400 and as far as I know this allows my wife to do some of the towing as well, as long as I'm the passenger (under a provisional learner entitlement).

I've never properly looked into it so not sure if you need to put 'L' plates on etc., so maybe check legalities before potentially invalidating your insurance

It would open up the whole market (within reason) to you and if a heavier caravan cost £400-700 less than a lighter one it pays for the B+E.

that is true, the £400-£700 could be saved on the cost of a caravan but it depends if I pass first time. 

MattyMayo

Abinitio, looks like you're right! So, no matter if you have L plates or not, if you haven't passed your test 3 years prior your insurance will be invalid any way - good to know!!

Ash, regarding the test, the hardest part is not speeding but if you have a good instructor (and check out all the youtube training videos) you can't go too far wrong.

Another thing to consider is if you buy a caravan at just under your max permitted weight and a year later your car dies, you'll be restricted to the same car or lighter unless you also change your caravan, again limiting the available market you can look
at. That's what happened to us, so I ended up having to do the B+E anyway only 3 months after buying our first caravan.

Better to budget £400 minimum for the test in advance than have a last minute bill you can't afford, otherwise your new toy is stuck on the drive!!

rovinmad

I recommend that you give up thoughts of down-plating a caravan as most have little enough payload as it is.  You need to concentrate on getting the right caravan.  I'm sure you will find one .  Good luck with your new hobby.

PS You could always try a trailer tent.

Danwestgate

For what it's worth, I did the B+E in one morning for about £400 and as far as I know this allows my wife to do some of the towing as well, as long as I'm the passenger (under a provisional learner entitlement).

I've never properly looked into it so not sure if you need to put 'L' plates on etc., so maybe check legalities before potentially invalidating your insurance

It would open up the whole market (within reason) to you and if a heavier caravan cost £400-700 less than a lighter one it pays for the B+E.

I would second this post. My husband found it really easy , he did 5 hours of lessons (as that was the minimum they said he could do before taking the test) and then passed his test the next morning at a cost of bout £400. It deffinitely is worth doing and
opens up your choices for buying

roylovelock

I went though this with my insurance company only a couple of months back. I passed my test in 1994 and also have psv so weight is not an issue. My wife passed in 2000 so she has not got the entitlement on her licence.

I spoke to my insurance (admiral) and they agreed that she could drive as a learner and would need to show L plates. ALSO she could drive on the motorways as she is a qualified driver - L plates are allowed for fully qualified drivers learning a different
licence.

I could only find that car learner drivers are not allowed on the motorway on L plates in the highway code.